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The UK not institutionally racist?

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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by pin:
    The reports are that some of the authors didn't even know they were authors of the report.
    This is completely false - like most of the narrative around this report.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by pin:
    The report has been ridiculed by anyone who isn't white.
    Which details in the report are shown to be 'laughably' wrong?

  3. #13

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    Having caucasians(of middle and upper class to boot) express opinions on whether there is racism(institutional or not) or what it's like is akin to having a male describe what it's like to be pregnant and have a baby. Those that have an ounce of good sense would refrain from it particularly in front of people who actually might have a clue.

    The fact that class has an effect is a separate issue just like being a woman or being handicapped or from a particular religion are separate issues. Again pretending to know or judge what is worse or better when you have never experienced it is simply laughable and embarrassing. What a lovely picture imagining a straight white male ranking and explaining the difficulties encountered by a black african, a female muslim and a gay blue collar white guy to those three. Might be a good comedy sketch...


  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramis:
    Having caucasians(of middle and upper class to boot) express opinions on whether there is racism(institutional or not) or what it's like is akin to having a male describe what it's like to be pregnant and have a baby. Those that have an ounce of good sense would refrain from it particularly in front of people who actually might have a clue.

    The fact that class has an effect is a separate issue just like being a woman or being handicapped or from a particular religion are separate issues. Again pretending to know or judge what is worse or better when you have never experienced it is simply laughable and embarrassing. What a lovely picture imagining a straight white male ranking and explaining the difficulties encountered by a black african, a female muslim and a gay blue collar white guy to those three. Might be a good comedy sketch...
    Twat. Let's have a Canadian mouthing off about racism in the UK instead.

    Not everyone is a middle class white guy and even those of us who are white may have had just a little more experience than you. My girlfriends/wives have been Jewish, Irish, Guyanan, Filipino etc etc. All in the UK. Decades of actively and physically fighting racism.

    You chose to comment on the thread so your experience of racism in the UK?

  5. #15

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    Original Post Deleted
    It is dramatically better than it was in the 1970s and 80s. Unrecognisable really. But I still think it is on the chart.
    vmlinuz likes this.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramis:
    Having caucasians(of middle and upper class to boot) express opinions on whether there is racism(institutional or not) or what it's like is akin to having a male describe what it's like to be pregnant and have a baby. Those that have an ounce of good sense would refrain from it particularly in front of people who actually might have a clue.

    The fact that class has an effect is a separate issue just like being a woman or being handicapped or from a particular religion are separate issues. Again pretending to know or judge what is worse or better when you have never experienced it is simply laughable and embarrassing. What a lovely picture imagining a straight white male ranking and explaining the difficulties encountered by a black african, a female muslim and a gay blue collar white guy to those three. Might be a good comedy sketch...
    OK, I'll leave aside the overtly racist notion that caucasians can never understand racism as being unworthy of a response.

    Instead, I will point out that this is why this British caucasian actually listens to people of colour when they produce an evidence based report on racism in the UK. If you choose to ignore the UK context either through ignorance of it and/or through the wilful disregard of British minority voices, then that is your obviously your choice, but it does look like you have a problem with people of colour having the 'wrong' views, which in itself is a seriously objectionable and racist attitude.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by pin:
    The report has been ridiculed by anyone who isn't white.
    Who is the black lady in the interview posted by the OP?

    I think there is a proportion of ethnic 'society' who want to push the narrative that all ethnic minority problems are caused by racism.
    Seesaw67 likes this.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramis:
    Having caucasians(of middle and upper class to boot) express opinions on whether there is racism(institutional or not) or what it's like is akin to having a male describe what it's like to be pregnant and have a baby. Those that have an ounce of good sense would refrain from it particularly in front of people who actually might have a clue.
    Do you know the ethnicities of the writers of the report?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aramis:
    The fact that class has an effect is a separate issue just like being a woman or being handicapped or from a particular religion are separate issues. Again pretending to know or judge what is worse or better when you have never experienced it is simply laughable and embarrassing. What a lovely picture imagining a straight white male ranking and explaining the difficulties encountered by a black african, a female muslim and a gay blue collar white guy to those three. Might be a good comedy sketch...
    Have you read the report or you just know 'they' must be wrong?
    TheBrit and Seesaw67 like this.

  9. #19

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    If you want to see a poor/disadvantaged population with great prejudice against them talk a walk in some of the sink city council estates like the one I grew up in (and educated at the local comp). Visit a few rundown coastal towns. These places are made up of predominantly white British.

    On the other hand visit the middle class school in Milton Keynes that I taught at for many years and you'll see the best achievers were black, Indian, SE Asian. Well off middle class whites came in second and working class whites were at the bottom.

    It's a very complicated picture and cannot be summed up in 'institutional racisim'

    Seesaw67 likes this.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seesaw67:
    OK, I'll leave aside the overtly racist notion that caucasians can never understand racism as being unworthy of a response.

    Instead, I will point out that this is why this British caucasian actually listens to people of colour when they produce an evidence based report on racism in the UK. If you choose to ignore the UK context either through ignorance of it and/or through the wilful disregard of British minority voices, then that is your obviously your choice, but it does look like you have a problem with people of colour having the 'wrong' views, which in itself is a seriously objectionable and racist attitude.
    As I said a caucasian raised in a western country understands racism as well as a male understand what a pregnant woman goes through... Some men I'm sure are quite comfortable mansplaining that to women though or tell women what they should do when it comes to abortion...

    Unlike many people here, I wouldn't even dare to try to express what the "right" or "wrong" view is about a topic I can never fully experience and I wouldn't embarrass myself by saying I know because I have friends/girlfriends from various minorities. As an example, if a male walks with a female, the events that unfold will likely be completely different than if the female walks alone. She can tell you what it's like but the feeling and experience from being stalked and followed repeatedly is light years away from being told about it.

    What is a fact is that in just about every western country, there is a disproportional number of people from minorities that are disadvantaged.

    It's not for me to make a judgment about institutional racism because I can NEVER fully understand the breadth and extent of it. Best I could ever do is facilitate the expression of those that actually have a clue.

    I understand that these forums are always rife with people that think they know everything about everything, it is after all a stereotypical attribute of the mighty expat so all I can do is have a laugh about it and occasionally point out what I personally see as BS. Again unlike many, I won't thump my chest, declare myself the grand winner and call others twat. I'm happily satisfied with my opinion which is just that.