Like Tree457Likes

January 2022: Global Covid News

Reply
Page 4 of 36 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 12 ... LastLast
  1. #31

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Pampanga, Philippines
    Posts
    27,022
    Quote Originally Posted by Sage:
    I would say there opposite.

    And for hospitalisations, they should be expressed as hospitalisations where covid symptoms are the primary cause of admission - The numbers would fall off a cliff.

    Case counts are for statisticians who spend real time to understand what they mean, the breaking news headline just posted by PJC shows perfectly why they are inflammatory bollocks to the average Joe.
    Have you got any evidence to support your hospitalisation claim? I am sure it is a factor but I see nothing to suggest numbers falling off a cliff.

  2. #32

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    2,123
    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    I would say keep giving daily case counts because otherwise they will just be made up on social media anyway.

    Even the hospitalisation number is debatable. In Hong Kong that means anyone positive doesn't it?

    In the Philippines the hospitals are mostly private and happily admit anyone willing to pay especially if they are mild so don't require any treatment for their money. A doctor here was complaining that triage meant checking the patient's bank account.

    In the UK I would imagine the NHS requirements for hospitalisation are much higher.
    What's the point when they estimate the case number are now vastly underreported due to testing capacity being maxed out? The epidemiologists are saying with omicron, at least in NA, it's the tip of the iceberg scenario.

    Also no one cares about HK's hospital numbers they're meaningless.
    Sage likes this.

  3. #33

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,589
    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    Have you got any evidence to support your hospitalisation claim? I am sure it is a factor but I see nothing to suggest numbers falling off a cliff.
    Of course this is one of the problems with the current system; it's set upon to shine a spotlight on covid cases in a way that does not occur for every other condition out there.

    Thus pragmatic doctors have to go against the system to point this out. You need to remember that a lack of data tells the story too.

    But despite that, yes there's plenty of accounts scattered over the last few years that paint a picture of the reality.

    For 1, the UK publishes 2 death results now. Covid on the death cert and covid as a primary cause - that's one bit of real data, but is still suggested to understate reality.

    But even from the article just posted by cornmeal:

    In a Dec. 30 briefing, Kieran Moore said that one Ontario hospital had estimated that up to 50 per cent of its COVID-19 patients were “incidental.” That is, the patient was admitted for another condition and a routine test for COVID-19 happened to come up positive.

    In U.S. jurisdictions keeping closer tabs on “incidental” infections, the rates are even higher. On Tuesday, the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services reported that roughly two-thirds of its COVID-19 patients were admitted for conditions other than the coronavirus.
    hullexile likes this.

  4. #34

    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    4,478
    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    And the Communist Party have objected because vaccinated people can get infected too.

    Meanwhile 45% of the population are fully vaccinated and 85% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated.
    Never thought I would agree with a “Communist Party” on anything. Sad days indeed when it takes the fringes to air reasonable points because the orthodox are too busy preaching received wisdom and calling doing that “science”. [OT long read that might be of interest, with bonus mentions of Occam’s Razor] - https://www.giffordlectures.org/book...kepler-galileo

    Since omicron and the apparent failure of “herd immunity”, I don’t feel I hear so much the previously oft repeated “pandemic of the unvaccinated”, which I did believe plausible if unfortunate, since that actually meant people vaccinating didn’t manage to protect others, just reduced the pool of people vulnerable to hospitalisation. So a 100m population with 70-80% vaccination rate would still have 20-30m unshielded from the full effects of Covid - i.e. no wider protective cloak because supposedly the 20-30m could pass it amongst themselves.

    Since omicron, anybody with eyes can see that it is the vaccinated majority vigorously spreading the virus, with vaccinations providing cover for abandoning social distancing, and the obvious Christmas and New Year spikes.

    Now, you are correctly pointing out that hospitalisations are primarily of the unvaccinated, but if usage of the hospital system is the true concern, then surely limiting the movement of the elderly must be more pertinent than targeting the unvaccinated, unless we are denying that they are the ones needing it most, since it is not most of the unvaccinated being hospitalised, just most of the hospitalised being unvaccinated. That is of course, unless some other agenda is being pursued. So if we wanted to limit utilisation, what is needed is curbs on the vulnerable age groups.

    In terms of fairness, it should be made clear to the unvaccinated that they would be de-prioritised in the hospital system. That is a fair and proportionate move in response to their own choices. What is not, is some spurious measures to restrict their freedom because “only they spread the virus”, or “they are responsible for a disproportionate number of hospital admissions”, when a careful look likely reveals you still have a lot more vaccinated elderly entering hospitals than the unvaccinated younger groups.

  5. #35

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Pampanga, Philippines
    Posts
    27,022
    Quote Originally Posted by AsianXpat0:
    Never thought I would agree with a “Communist Party” on anything. Sad days indeed when it takes the fringes to air reasonable points because the orthodox are too busy preaching received wisdom and calling doing that “science”. [OT long read that might be of interest, with bonus mentions of Occam’s Razor] - https://www.giffordlectures.org/book...kepler-galileo

    Since omicron and the apparent failure of “herd immunity”, I don’t feel I hear so much the previously oft repeated “pandemic of the unvaccinated”, which I did believe plausible if unfortunate, since that actually meant people vaccinating didn’t manage to protect others, just reduced the pool of people vulnerable to hospitalisation. So a 100m population with 70-80% vaccination rate would still have 20-30m unshielded from the full effects of Covid - i.e. no wider protective cloak because supposedly the 20-30m could pass it amongst themselves.

    Since omicron, anybody with eyes can see that it is the vaccinated majority vigorously spreading the virus, with vaccinations providing cover for abandoning social distancing, and the obvious Christmas and New Year spikes.

    Now, you are correctly pointing out that hospitalisations are primarily of the unvaccinated, but if usage of the hospital system is the true concern, then surely limiting the movement of the elderly must be more pertinent than targeting the unvaccinated, unless we are denying that they are the ones needing it most, since it is not most of the unvaccinated being hospitalised, just most of the hospitalised being unvaccinated. That is of course, unless some other agenda is being pursued. So if we wanted to limit utilisation, what is needed is curbs on the vulnerable age groups.

    In terms of fairness, it should be made clear to the unvaccinated that they would be de-prioritised in the hospital system. That is a fair and proportionate move in response to their own choices. What is not, is some spurious measures to restrict their freedom because “only they spread the virus”, or “they are responsible for a disproportionate number of hospital admissions”, when a careful look likely reveals you still have a lot more vaccinated elderly entering hospitals than the unvaccinated younger groups.
    The elderly (and minors) are also banned.

    The unvaccinated take up a very high percentage of the very limited hospital beds. This pushes out all the other sick because they can't get a bed. So my wife's cousin in the previous wave had to go to another city to get a hospital bed for kidney failure (she died).

    Everyone has had the opportunity to get vaccinated and there is absolutely no reason not to do so.

    The figures in the Philippines are misleading in that 45% of the population are fully vaccinated but children make up nearly half the population, so of adults it is more like 80% and in Manila and other cities including my own it is all but 100%.

  6. #36

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    7,361

    Australians are still exploding in a fit of fury over the decision to let the world number 1 tennis player in unvaccinated, granted an exemption, this dickhead stubbornly refuses to reveal why he was granted an exemption, tennis organisers just say its "private reason and only Novak himself can choose whether he wants to reveal the reason or not". Just the biggest and most arrogant prick on the planet. Even the English cricket team, currently on an Ashes tour of Australia, have not been able to escape certain COVID regulations but for tennis players they can just do what they want. This is a huge disgrace and the entire tennis world should be ashamed of themselves!

    https://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis...6fc0098ba02bca

    Mrs. Jones likes this.

  7. #37

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Pampanga, Philippines
    Posts
    27,022
    Quote Originally Posted by bdw:
    Australians are still exploding in a fit of fury over the decision to let the world number 1 tennis player in unvaccinated, granted an exemption, this dickhead stubbornly refuses to reveal why he was granted an exemption, tennis organisers just say its "private reason and only Novak himself can choose whether he wants to reveal the reason or not". Just the biggest and most arrogant prick on the planet. Even the English cricket team, currently on an Ashes tour of Australia, have not been able to escape certain COVID regulations but for tennis players they can just do what they want. This is a huge disgrace and the entire tennis world should be ashamed of themselves!

    https://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis...6fc0098ba02bca
    I wonder what level of service he will get in the hotel?
    bdw likes this.

  8. #38

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    7,361

    In other Australian news, 64k positive cases reported today. But this is massively under reported since we have basically ran out of tests. Australians have been queuing in their cars for days to get PCR test, then getting turned away. Now we have switched to the rapid antigen test that you can do at home, and a positive RAT test is now required before you can get a PCR test. But we don't have any RAT's either and they are sold out everywhere, a few dodgy restaurants selling on Uber eats for 5 times the price it should be, and infinitely more expensive than the free handouts they have in Europe. So now, unless they are dying, most Aussies with COVID will just stay at home for a while until they feel better.

    Name:  RAT.jpg
Views: 213
Size:  74.4 KB

    hullexile likes this.

  9. #39

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Pampanga, Philippines
    Posts
    27,022
    Quote Originally Posted by bdw:
    In other Australian news, 64k positive cases reported today. But this is massively under reported since we have basically ran out of tests. Australians have been queuing in their cars for days to get PCR test, then getting turned away. Now we have switched to the rapid antigen test that you can do at home, and a positive RAT test is now required before you can get a PCR test. But we don't have any RAT's either and they are sold out everywhere, a few dodgy restaurants selling on Uber eats for 5 times the price it should be, and infinitely more expensive than the free handouts they have in Europe. So now, unless they are dying, most Aussies with COVID will just stay at home for a while until they feel better.

    Name:  RAT.jpg
Views: 213
Size:  74.4 KB
    Three Greek yiros or an antigen test? I would diagnose myself and have a happy tummy.
    bdw likes this.

  10. #40

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Beautiful Britain
    Posts
    1,862

    The numbers keep getting bigger. France beating UK now.

    https://www.france24.com/en/live-new...es-top-270-000

    qhank likes this.

Reply
Page 4 of 36 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 12 ... LastLast