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World Cup in Qatar - The sideshow or the main event?

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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrancisX:
    See above. This has very little to do with Qatar's laws and everything to do with the promises it made to FIFA when awarded host nation status.

    (I should add I don't for a second think Qatar should have been awarded the World Cup, but that is a separate argument)
    Very specifically, did they agree to suspend local / shariah or whatever laws when it came to dealing with these protests?

    Agree... Should never ever have been granted the world cup, but I don't know what fifa extracted out of them, other cash.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by shri:
    CNN: UK foreign secretary under fire for saying LGBT soccer fans should be "respectful" …
    He should be under fire for saying soccer
    ByeByeEngland likes this.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by snjt:
    He should be under fire for saying soccer
    Probably CNN..

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrancisX:
    Point missed. Goal kick awarded. Those "fucking liberals" don't need to read the links you have posted because those links are irrelevant.

    The arguments are not about Qatar as a country, but Qatar as a World Cup host and the obligation it has as host to respect the values of FIFA, which include acceptance and inclusion of LGB fans. This isn't up for debate.

    Nice though that you wouldn't have a problem with Qatar locking up gay football fans for having the temerity to not go back inside the closet. Showing your class.
    Sorry but as usual you have missed the point entirely. Qatar should never have been awarded the World Cup. Once it was awarded there was zero effort at change apart from a bit of tokenism.

    Not once in my post, nor anywhere else on Geo (I hope) have I ever expressed views that you are suggesting I have. My point is simply this. Liberalism works in the West it does NOT work in Islamic countries. Whether that is awful by western standards is not the debate. Whether people jump over the border for fun is not the debate, whether Dubai effectively silently endorses expat behaviour in and around the Marina, Jumeirah beach and other places and allows liquor licenses for westerners is not the debate.

    Within the borders of Qatar the rules have not changed and are not going to change before the World Cup. Now if you’d bothered even to read the first article there is expected behaviour and dress code long before you even get into sexuality issues. That is a simple fact. Boundaries are going to be challenged and it is sometimes not going to be pretty.

    The point is simple. Liberalism works in the western world. It isn’t happening in Qatar and other Middle Eastern states and quite frankly there is no meaningful global sporting or political will to challenge it.
    tparker likes this.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBrit:
    Do you think it's ok for human rights abuses to be perpetrated in the name of religion?
    No all I am trying to do is point out the advice that is pretty much issued from any embassy when visiting Middle Eastern states. Nothing more nothing less. Leaving aside the LGBT issue there are enough issues just following simple street etiquette when in the company of others.

    Don’t get me started on religion. One visit to the vast wealth of the Vatican museum killed any remote possibility of belief.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by ByeByeEngland:
    No all I am trying to do is point out the advice that is pretty much issued from any embassy when visiting Middle Eastern states.
    It's standard advice from every embassy and indeed common sense not to break the local laws of the country you are visiting. Nothing peculiar to the Middle East.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBrit:
    It's standard advice from every embassy and indeed common sense not to break the local laws of the country you are visiting. Nothing peculiar to the Middle East.
    Agreed, but a minister gets pilloried for providing the same advice. Could he have delivered better? Sure. Does it merit the criticism. Personally I think not.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrancisX:
    Point missed. Goal kick awarded. Those "fucking liberals" don't need to read the links you have posted because those links are irrelevant.

    The arguments are not about Qatar as a country, but Qatar as a World Cup host and the obligation it has as host to respect the values of FIFA, which include acceptance and inclusion of LGB fans. This isn't up for debate.

    Nice though that you wouldn't have a problem with Qatar locking up gay football fans for having the temerity to not go back inside the closet. Showing your class.
    Values of FIFA!
    ReleaseZeKraken likes this.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by snjt:
    He should be under fire for saying soccer
    I had a hard time deciding which thread to post under...this or Twitter or Russia.

    Flashback 2018..

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jzm...4nK1Q1d7k/view

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrancisX:
    The arguments are not about Qatar as a country, but Qatar as a World Cup host and the obligation it has as host to respect the values of FIFA, which include acceptance and inclusion of LGB fans. This isn't up for debate.
    This does not seem to be true. Only were the door is fully open do FIFA champion human rights.

    In 2018 Jerome Valcke, FIFA’s secretary general, said “less democracy is sometimes better for organizing a World Cup,” ... “When you have a very strong head of state who can decide, as maybe Putin"

    Qatar appear to have won the bid on financial grounds rather than growing the game and spreading peace and love.

    https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Qa...rld-Cup-582998

    I guess the issues is over the word 'respect'. Modern thinking seems to link respect with approval. I believe you can respect the law and the way it is enforced and fully disagree with it.

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