Russia / Ukraine War - 2023 News and Issues

[sarsi]

I did not agree with Zelensky's avoidance of a face to a face meet in G20 and am fully disapproving of how he did it again late last year by declaring he will not negotiate so long as the person is Putin but he is ok to meet if it is Putin's successor. I dunno what kind of logic this is for a leader of a country at war..

[SirNotAppearing]

Logic of why surgeons don't remove a heart temporarily from a patient to take their burst appendix out?

[sarsi]

Do you mean he doesn't want to give the impression he's open to the kind of negotiation that will then imply the war is not wrong and illegal. But that's also not what he said.. ;_;

https://www.livemint.com/news/world/...876727245.html

Russia needs to GTFO definitely. No question. Though Zelensky moves are just strange in an active ongoing war context..

[sarsi]

Since we're only just talking.. Zelensky moves are strange because it is losing points for Ukr and not good when the points are from the public of countries who have poured in taxpayer money to help the war efforts of a country whose leader keeps avoiding direct face-offs. When the physical war started, the public opinion felt like 100% in favour of Ukr. It no longer feels like 100%. And there was really no need for all the media to be aggressively pumping out articles about Russia disinfo and lies to edge ahead - I think this actually lost points for them as they kept it up.

I believe the general public impression of Russia was always on the darker covert side so it was already there to begin with 😅

[snjt]

Zelensky has never been a strong politician to begin with. Read his biography - he’s a former comic actor..

[hullexile]

Zelensky has never been a strong politician to begin with. Read his biography - he’s a former comic actor..

I thought everyone knew that? I am not sure why being an actor, comic or otherwise, stops you being a strong politician.

[Football16]

Original Post Deleted

Exactly.

There are times where leaders who don't seem qualified rise to the occasion and not only inspire their people but make sound strategic decisions.

There are think tanks now lauding what he's done.


Yet, if a movie idea with a plot line that had a comedian/actor who played a President in a comedy show on TV who becames a brilliant strategic and tactical leader as President and considered now as one of the strongest leaders in Europe would likely get laughed off.

Toss in how the US and NATO believed the invasion was game over for Ukraine yet Ukrainians are proving highly effective in battle both tactically and responsibly in using western weapons.

Add in how he was offered a flight to safety after the Russian invasion by the most powerful military on the planet and says "I dont' need a ride, I need weapons" - likely no one would take on such a script.

A month or so back I asked ret. US General David Petraeus on Linkedin who gives a nightly report if he was in favour of the longer range weapons etc and he had no issue jumping on board on that one. Also, he didn't quibble that the Putin threat of nuclear weapons use was unlikely as the US President has promised a significant conventional weapons response if that occurred.

Yesterday a Canadian former Ambassador to the EU or something like that said on our TV that he's confident Ukraine will get those jets etc as they've gotten everything they've asked for - just not as fast as Ukraine wanted.

Petraeus also confirmed the conclusion of this report out of Europe:

“US spending of 5.6% of its defense budget to destroy nearly half of Russia’s conventional military capability seems like an absolutely incredible investment,” the analysis reads.

"Altogether, the Biden administration received Congressional approval for $40bn in aid for Ukraine for 2022 and has requested an additional $37.7bn for 2022. More than half of this aid has been earmarked for defense. The total US defense budget for 2022 is $715 billion."

https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/12/...-ukraine-cepa/

[sarsi]

I'm still v much at G20 mentality - at that time I said why wouldn't Zelensky be jumping at the chance to meet the person who declared war on your country if anything just for the chance to wring his neck. The public opinion then was he was doing a gd job because he is openly standing up to Putin w/o the usual politician fencing.

When he did it the 2nd time in Nov, the public reaction still very much in Ukr's favour but no longer that strong. There were plenty of ppl on Twitter criticizing it - none of the criticisms tied it to his lack of politician experience. They were all criticizing it as a lack of genuine concern over the welfare of his ppl at war and Ukr allies who are funding it in part against a stronger opponent or a show of Ukrainian weakness that is symbolic of how it has led itself to this war by not acting as a serious sovereign.

I mentioned before Ukr has the independence status but have problems maintaining/enforcing that in substance. The serious sovereign point is the same point I think which is terrible for war support. Ukr didn't need public opinion to be right in the first place but they took it to the public to make it a public favour war so now they suddenly don't look so right anymore even though nothing else has changed.

[hullexile]

I'm still v much at G20 mentality - at that time I said why wouldn't Zelensky be jumping at the chance to meet the person who declared war on your country if anything just for the chance to wring his neck. The public opinion then was he was doing a gd job because he is openly standing up to Putin w/o the usual politician fencing.

When he did it the 2nd time in Nov, the public reaction still very much in Ukr's favour but no longer that strong. There were plenty of ppl on Twitter criticizing it - none of the criticisms tied it to his lack of politician experience. They were all criticizing it as a lack of genuine concern over the welfare of his ppl at war and Ukr allies who are funding it in part against a stronger opponent or a show of Ukrainian weakness that is symbolic of how it has led itself to this war by not acting as a serious sovereign.

I mentioned before Ukr has the independence status but have problems maintaining/enforcing that in substance. The serious sovereign point is the same point I think which is terrible for war support. Ukr didn't need public opinion to be right in the first place but they took it to the public to make it a public favour war so now they suddenly don't look so right anymore even though nothing else has changed.

Where is your evidence? Comments on twitter?

[sarsi]

Evidence is not what I would asking for. It is a public opinion war. It doesn't feel like 100% anymore to me and I wouldn't be calling someone who thinks it is still 100% for their evidence.

As a separate note, I have not changed my opinion about you jgl woodwood DeletedUser and any others involved or your predatorial crowd bullying. I understand there is a strong collective desire to continue with forum life per normal so every time this happens, posts are removed, ppl urged to make peace and ignore if required and for a short while after, things resume normalcy usually beginning with innocuous forum interactions like what you just did. It has happened the same way for all of the times it did - impossible for me to interpret this as anything other than a fake attempt at restarting relations but will eventually culminate in the same type of cornering. I am still of the opinion this is a top priority and there will be the same type of snide remarks at the next possible opening. Ignoring, wiping posts has been a proven failed solution to stem out the problem which actually has worsened so I am very sure it will not work this time either.

Me leaving the forum and not posting to reduce conflict due to targetted victim choosing to bend over and leave is not something I will ever do. As I said, bullies like you lot should never ever be allowed to get away with it. If I leave, there will always be another coolboy you will be able to find.

I will not be replying or responding to any thread topics started by you or any of the others. I will make it a point to take note who are your known associates and I will not chime in to their threads or posts. I have never commented or initiated discussions with any of you whether on your own threads or others to date outside of the arguments and this will continue to be the same. This is at least a new solution imo which is better than pretending to make peace. You have your space to discuss amongst yourselves without having to tolerate seeing posts made in a different presentation style and tempo or simply just from someone you dislike because you've assumed a lot of things. There is no need to initiate contact or interact with me as well. But this should not affect general discussions on other things. If there is genuine intention to maintain forum peace, there should never be any reason for any of you to have any sort of contact with me on normal forum discussions.