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Israel formally declares war

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  1. #861

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobly:
    I venture to say Myanmar is the exception not the rule.

    Mind you, there'd still be violence because it's a question of who get to own the land and who gets to live there. but IMO, it's a little less crazy (but still violent) without the religious element. to be sure its a complex problem, we could slice this up dozens of ways.
    No religion with the khmer rouge, no religion with the Vietnamese war, no religion with the korean war, no religion in the Tutsi vs Hutu conflict in Rwanda and Burundi. No religion with the China Cultural Revolution, no religion with the gang wars in various South and Central American countries. Religion is just an excuse and so is blaming it.

  2. #862

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    Quote Originally Posted by DonDiego:
    No religion with the khmer rouge, no religion with the Vietnamese war, no religion with the korean war, no religion in the Tutsi vs Hutu conflict in Rwanda and Burundi. No religion with the China Cultural Revolution, no religion with the gang wars in various South and Central American countries. Religion is just an excuse and so is blaming it.
    My favourite, which was also said on here once, is that WWII was a religious war because the Nazis were Christians. Yep they worshipped a Jew, believed the Jews were God's chosen people, believed in a book written by Jews.

  3. #863

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrancisX:
    Stop being lazy and do the math. Take 2023 results, factor in 3% growth and minus the number claimed to have died since the start of the war, as reported by the Gaza Health Ministry (a.45,000 - most likely a high estimate). You will still have a small population growth. At very worst a slight drop. Most definitely no genocide.


    Hope that's cleared things up.

    Worst. Genocide. Ever.
    Most definitely he says as if he is the arbiter of the word. Look up the definition and you will see that there's plenty of room for interpretation in the use of the word. Estimations of the deaths are more likely around 100 000 with the disease and starvation caused by the Israeli government. Nowhere does it say that genocide has to mean the elimination of the whole population.

    Oxford definition: the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.

    Maybe YOU think 100 000 people killed is not a high(enough?) number and maybe YOU think that this Israeli government is not looking to destroying Palestine, that is an opinion but it is by no means a fact nor is it definite and MANY people have different opinions which are at least equally valid.

    It is also COMPLETELY ridiculous to think that the birth rate would not be affected by the war. Between the lack of medical services, the number of men and women that have died, the lack of food and medicine and the complete loss of privacy that comes with homelessness, it would be ludicrous to extrapolate from these old numbers.
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  4. #864

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    https://english.wafa.ps/Pages/Details/145832

    Based on the data, the estimated growth rate in Gaza Strip for 2023 will decrease from about 2.7%, according to PCBS estimates for 2023, to only about 1% during 2024
    I wasn’t aware that anyone was actually taking this as a serious question, but seeing the exaggerations now exceed even what the Palestinians themselves are putting out, please see for yourself if you must. They only claimed 34 martyrs from famine. Interesting when other people put out assertions here we don’t see the screaming for a link/source.

  5. #865

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    Quote Originally Posted by AsianXpat0:
    https://english.wafa.ps/Pages/Details/145832



    I wasn’t aware that anyone was actually taking this as a serious question, but seeing the exaggerations now exceed even what the Palestinians themselves are putting out, please see for yourself if you must. They only claimed 34 martyrs from famine. Interesting when other people put out assertions here we don’t see the screaming for a link/source.
    Thank you at least for responding. That is all I asked for. People said it was easy to find, took 3 seconds. Not for me it wasn't.

  6. #866

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    You’re welcome, but the UN claimed 123k pregnant women >13 months ago, and I have still only given population growth estimate numbers.

    Since the variation in pre-war Gaza population estimates ranges from 2.2-2.4m, I have no idea what a current estimate of the population would have done for you either, when I suspect data on pregnant women representing additions would be clearer.

    All this fuss around the word genocide. Even if they eliminated a whole village it would be a war crime but not genocide. If their intent was elimination they are doing a poor job of it. That doesn’t mean there may not be wrongdoing, abuse of power, or war crimes taking place, but this ability to attribute intent without wholesale massacres taking place astounds me. If anything, the indiscriminate slaughter Hamas visited upon the Israelis more resembles genocide than the reverse, with the disparity in the death toll largely reflecting that of their respective military power and Hamas clinging to the hostages.

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  7. #867

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    You want numbers?

    The number of around 38 000 casualties back in the summer was accepted by multiple sources. Potentially another 10 000 could be buried in rubbles. In such conflicts, the number of indirect deaths is usually a multiple of 3 to 15 so 100 000 extra casualties would likely be a low estimate. As to genocide, see Oxford definition... Indiscrimate slaughter from Hamas and not from the Israeli government? That's definitely a matter of perspective and opinion.


    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...169-3/fulltext


  8. #868

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    Quote Originally Posted by DonDiego:
    You want numbers?

    The number of around 38 000 casualties back in the summer was accepted by multiple sources. Potentially another 10 000 could be buried in rubbles. In such conflicts, the number of indirect deaths is usually a multiple of 3 to 15 so 100 000 extra casualties would likely be a low estimate. As to genocide, see Oxford definition... Indiscrimate slaughter from Hamas and not from the Israeli government? That's definitely a matter of perspective and opinion.


    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...169-3/fulltext
    Christ, this is an opinion article that has been widely discredited.
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  9. #869

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flapster:
    Christ, this is an opinion article that has been widely discredited.
    People see what they want to see...No doubt you prefer the numbers and the tales published by the Israeli government

  10. #870

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    Quote Originally Posted by DonDiego:
    Most definitely he says as if he is the arbiter of the word. Look up the definition and you will see that there's plenty of room for interpretation in the use of the word. Estimations of the deaths are more likely around 100 000 with the disease and starvation caused by the Israeli government. Nowhere does it say that genocide has to mean the elimination of the whole population.

    Oxford definition: the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.

    Maybe YOU think 100 000 people killed is not a high(enough?) number and maybe YOU think that this Israeli government is not looking to destroying Palestine, that is an opinion but it is by no means a fact nor is it definite and MANY people have different opinions which are at least equally valid.

    It is also COMPLETELY ridiculous to think that the birth rate would not be affected by the war. Between the lack of medical services, the number of men and women that have died, the lack of food and medicine and the complete loss of privacy that comes with homelessness, it would be ludicrous to extrapolate from these old numbers.
    Thanks for agreeing.

    Maybe if the children stop talking about genocide, some actual progress can be made.

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