Israel formally declares war

[Flapster]

OK mr non binary... What is the proportional response to a terrorist attack that targets a few hundred people? 10 000, 100 000, 1 000 000? At what number would you consider the use of the word genocide or you just wait until no one is left? Personally, I take no political side, the government of Israel are murderers and so are the members of Hamas. I take no side except for the Israeli and Palestinian civilians that suffer from hardliner extremists on BOTH sides. I also understand that BOTH sides need to defend themselves so I try to look at proportional responses to the attacks and injustices that are committed by political and military entities on BOTH sides. I find it repulsive to support one side or the other when they are both so bent on violence.

You need to get a refund for your law degree. There is a legal definition of murder, just as there is a legal definition of genocide. Unless you choose to invent meanings, and then render language meaningless.

I stopped reading when you invent meanings for words.

[Flapster]

Not that complex he says...OK and what is the threshold? Who decides that threshold? Who is the arbiter of the number of people that need to be killed to be a genocide? You?

Clue: the threshold is not a number.

[hullexile]

You need to get a refund for your law degree. There is a legal definition of murder, just as there is a legal definition of genocide. Unless you choose to invent meanings, and then render language meaningless.

I stopped reading when you invent meanings for words.

Under the legal definition Israel could indeed be accused of genocide whereas I, without a law degree, would say not.

https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition

[Mr.Haggis]

Some people who use the term "genocide" to describe Israel's actions in Gaza do so because they genuinely believe that some of Israel's actions constitute the items described in the UN definition. Namely, the "killing members of the group", "causing serious bodily harm to members of the group", and "deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part" bits where the group in question is Palestinian Arabs (as opposed to Hamas terrorists). The extent to which this is true is contentious and the line between what is collateral damage and what is collective punishment is just one of the myriad topics that unfortunately can never be discussed rationally since both sides of the argument are unequivocal in their opinions whenever a discussion arises. Discounting the reality that many of the pro-Israel party deliberately or through ignorance conflate the Palestinian Arab population with Hamas terrorists is just as short sighted as ignoring the fact that a lot of the anti-Israel rhetoric is borne out of deep rooted anti-Semitism.


It is definitely worth pointing out that many others use the term precisely because of its association to the Holocaust of the Jewish people and the perceived "irony". Obviously this is not helpful to any side and is just another reason why it seems no headway can ever be made on discussions on "who is in the right" if anyone.

I think that the only thing that can be agreed on is that war is hell and that no civilians deserve to have their homes, lives and families destroyed for something they have no control over.

[DonDiego]

You need to get a refund for your law degree. There is a legal definition of murder, just as there is a legal definition of genocide. Unless you choose to invent meanings, and then render language meaningless.

I stopped reading when you invent meanings for words.

Just the fact that you compare murder and genocide tells me that you don't have a clue... In any case, it's certainly not idiots arguing on the internet that are qualified to declare whether there is a genocide happening or not.

[Flapster]

Just the fact that you compare murder and genocide tells me that you don't have a clue... In any case, it's certainly not idiots arguing on the internet that are qualified to declare whether there is a genocide happening or not.

Ok, I promised myself I wouldn't reply, but just for the record, please re-read my post. Nowhere did I compare murder and genocide. I said there are legal definitions of the two. There is also a legal definition for jaywalking. This is a fact, not a comparison. Is this your attempt at an ad hominem?

[DonDiego]

Ok, I promised myself I wouldn't reply, but just for the record, please re-read my post. Nowhere did I compare murder and genocide. I said there are legal definitions of the two. There is also a legal definition for jaywalking. This is a fact, not a comparison. Is this your attempt at an ad hominem?

And the legal definition for most things differ from country to country and it needs lawyers and judges to interpret not internet warriors...Do you have a point?

[hullexile]

Amnesty International declare it genocide using the UN definition linked above.

Personally I don't give Amnesty a lot of credibility but interesting all the same

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...nians-in-gaza/

[FrancisX]

Ok, I promised myself I wouldn't reply, but just for the record, please re-read my post. Nowhere did I compare murder and genocide. I said there are legal definitions of the two. There is also a legal definition for jaywalking. This is a fact, not a comparison. Is this your attempt at an ad hominem?

Some people on here don't usually actually read what your write. They just see words and get triggered into an angry, personal response. Happens all the time.

[FrancisX]

Amnesty International declare it genocide using the UN definition linked above.

Personally I don't give Amnesty a lot of credibility but interesting all the same

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...nians-in-gaza/

Bloody hell, we agree on something.

A nonsense of a report from an ideologically captured organisation. Funny how quick they are to judge Israel but no mention of South Sudan, where an actual genocide has been gathering for years now.

Since South Sudan's civil war began in 2013, Dinka government forces and Nuer militias have tortured, raped, and killed hundreds of thousands civilians based on ethnicity. Growing insecurity due to the ongoing civil war has resulted in a steady increase in mass rape and gender-based violence. Renewed violence threatens the country's fragile peace deal.

Civilians continue to be massacred on a scale so large it is genocidal. 86% of those killed or injured are victims of attacks by ethnic militias or army troops. Since 2013, ethnic massacres of civilians have become normal. Nuer and Dinka men and women have been subjected to hate speech and torture by both Nuer and Dinka armies. This ethnic targeting of civilians constitutes Genocide. Due to continuing civil war, ethnic massacres, and non-implementation of peace agreements, Genocide Watch considers South Sudan to be at Stage 9: Extermination.

Just to repeat: Genocide Watch considers South Sudan to be at Stage 9: Extermination

Amnesty? Nothing? Really? I wonder why? Is it because of the power that word has and how it is politically expedient to use against Israel but not so much Muslim-dominated Sudan? Not for me to say.