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Biden - Bad or Terrible

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  1. #51

    They (outgoing presidents) oughtn't be allowed to pardon anyone in the period between election and inauguration, because there is no political consequence.

    East_coast likes this.

  2. #52

    Seems you have to accept guilt to receive a pardon - not sure how that works with "blank pardons" or if it has consequences for jobs with criminal record checks ...

    https://x.com/mcandrus/status/1881341275628270058


  3. #53

    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonDiego:
    Time will tell whether the preemptive pardons were necessary if/when Trump starts abusing power. He certainly has zero moral high ground by releasing the Capitol rioters. As to corruption in government, had to make a point when you put forward people like Hegseth and Gaetz for cabinet positions.
    How will we tell if they are already immune from prosecution? Not a great position to be arguing from. It's anti democratic and goes against the rule of law. You know, the kind of thing a fascist leader does? Thought you didn't like that kind of thing?

    For the record though, putting people forward for office who you don't like is not corruption. Money laundering billions in bribes and under the table payments from Ukranian energy firms could be though.
    paddylast likes this.

  4. #54

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    The pardons were necessary because as Trump's SCOTUS made president's immune, Trump's only recourse against Biden was to bring SLAPP lawsuits for whatever against other members of his family.


  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrancisX:
    How will we tell if they are already immune from prosecution? Not a great position to be arguing from. It's anti democratic and goes against the rule of law. You know, the kind of thing a fascist leader does? Thought you didn't like that kind of thing?

    For the record though, putting people forward for office who you don't like is not corruption. Money laundering billions in bribes and under the table payments from Ukranian energy firms could be though.
    You can easily tell when completely incompetent people are nominated for cabinet positions and pushing nominations without proper vetting is a form of corruption. Biden did not preemptively pardon everyone so if Trump's lackeys are clearly going for some of the people Trump has beef with then Biden's pardon may start looking like not enough... Is the whole thing tasteless? Absolutely! Where one puts the fault on this whole mess is massively biased and a matter of perspective. Very similar to the Israel-Hamas conflict in some way. There are no angels, there's no good and evil side. Most people decide that one side is worse than the other but there's no absolute truth to it.

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by paddylast:
    They (outgoing presidents) oughtn't be allowed to pardon anyone in the period between election and inauguration, because there is no political consequence.
    Erm no, they shouldn't be allowed to pardon anyone ever anyway.
    What the fuck rule of law does America have where a single person can stand above the law, judges, judiciaries and just decide "meh, no rule of law for xyz"
    East_coast likes this.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by newhkpr:
    Erm no, they shouldn't be allowed to pardon anyone ever anyway.
    What the fuck rule of law does America have where a single person can stand above the law, judges, judiciaries and just decide "meh, no rule of law for xyz"
    Well legal systems around the world are generally an ass, and the USA is no exception it seems. So personally, I don't mind if the leader of the country has that power. But it should be controlled and I think it could be controlled much better if there are political consequences.

  8. #58

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    Pardon power was written into the US Constitution but only for crimes against the US.
    Enjoy this annotated Constitution:

    The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

    https://constitution.congress.gov/br...ALDE_00013322/

    newhkpr likes this.

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