Pope Watch 2025

[MABinPengChau]

Owner of Leo's childhood home pulls it off the market after he is named pope, realizing he can cash in...

I am so proud to be an American.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/pope...152603142.html

[alexdown]

Let's see, 133 cardinals watching the first mass in the Sistine Chapel, more than half are more fluent in English than Italian, particularly Asian, African, and North American cardinals.

Does it matter?

At least 1 million people watching on video, whether live or on YouTube. Approximately what percentage of those have a passing knowledge of English vs. Italian?

Again, does it matter? They don't celebrate mass for the benefit of the people watching on YouTube.

Even the large masses and blessings in St. Peter's Square. How many pilgrims vs. Italians?

Doesn't matter. It's in Italy, they say it in Italian.

It is not the lingua franca of the Church and never was.

Uhm ok. So most priests speak at least a passable Italian..because???

We are in the Digital Age. The global video audience vastly outnumbers the live audience.

The global video audience is not the point. As a catholic, you should understand that.
All those past posts focussing on the monetary contribution of the American church to Rome... They didn't elect him pope because he's American and the American church contributes more to the Vatican's finances.

[SirNotAppearing]

Agreed. He's not speaking in the international language of commerce.

[MABinPengChau]

Does it matter?



Again, does it matter? They don't celebrate mass for the benefit of the people watching on YouTube.


Doesn't matter. It's in Italy, they say it in Italian.


Uhm ok. So most priests speak at least a passable Italian..because???



The global video audience is not the point. As a catholic, you should understand that.
All those past posts focussing on the monetary contribution of the American church to Rome... They didn't elect him pope because he's American and the American church contributes more to the Vatican's finances.

A mass is about an hour, maybe 10 minutes of homily. Most of the rest, except the old testament and epistle is in Latin.

It's the universal church, NOT the Italian church and the mass is very much offered for the universal church by the pope.

The church's goal is evalengelization, which is, in fact, the stated goal as commanded by Jesus:
Matthew 28:19–20: “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you."

In fact, at the first Pentacost, under the power of the Holy Spirit, each listener to Jesus" disciples was able to hear the message in his own language.

So one can argue that Jesus was very much about reaching people in their own language.

Papal Encyclicals, the most important documents written by the pope, are issued in Latin, the universal language of the Church. Before the change from Latin to the vernacular during the 1960s, the beauty of the Church was being able to attend anywhere in the world and go to a mass the same as at home.

As far as English being the language of commerce, there's a lot more reasons than that, predominantly the former British colonies of the US, Canada, and India. That's an easy billion right there, with Spain and Portugal's colonies spreading Spanish and Portuguese.

The Vatican is its own country, it is not a part of Italy. Sure, some Italian is needed to buy food, pay utilities, etc.

In the digital age and with the growth of Catholicism very much outside Europe, the Pope can surely mix it up. English, Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian, go for it. He speaks all these languages so rotating among them feels like a new direction the Church could embrace to be more relevant and inclusive and not a club of old guys speaking Italian amongst themselves.

[MABinPengChau]

As to why bishops and cardinals needed to speak Italian: there was a stranglehold on the upper echelon by Italian clerics. Francis changed that and I posted a couple of times the geographic cardinal distribution. You can see the pile of Italian cardinals, more than half I believe finally aged out. Remember that Francis is the son of Italian immigrants to Argentina and I am going to bet spoke a lot of Italian at home. Benedict had been at the Vatican for so long surrounded by an entirely Italian hierarchy, yes, going to speak Italian.

John Paul was an incredible dark horse, elected because the Italian died. In 1978, yep, all Italian hierarchy. And, yes, no one going to learn Polish, that's quite difficult.

If he wants a more inclusive church, be more inclusive in the choice of language.

[paddylast]

A mass is about an hour, maybe 10 minutes of homily. Most of the rest, except the old testament and epistle is in Latin.

It's the universal church, NOT the Italian church and the mass is very much offered for the universal church by the pope.

The church's goal is evalengelization, which is, in fact, the stated goal as commanded by Jesus:
Matthew 28:19–20: “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you."

In fact, at the first Pentacost, under the power of the Holy Spirit, each listener to Jesus" disciples was able to hear the message in his own language.

So one can argue that Jesus was very much about reaching people in their own language.

Papal Encyclicals, the most important documents written by the pope, are issued in Latin, the universal language of the Church. Before the change from Latin to the vernacular during the 1960s, the beauty of the Church was being able to attend anywhere in the world and go to a mass the same as at home.

As far as English being the language of commerce, there's a lot more reasons than that, predominantly the former British colonies of the US, Canada, and India. That's an easy billion right there, with Spain and Portugal's colonies spreading Spanish and Portuguese.

The Vatican is its own country, it is not a part of Italy. Sure, some Italian is needed to buy food, pay utilities, etc.

In the digital age and with the growth of Catholicism very much outside Europe, the Pope can surely mix it up. English, Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian, go for it. He speaks all these languages so rotating among them feels like a new direction the Church could embrace to be more relevant and inclusive and not a club of old guys speaking Italian amongst themselves.

Maybe you are right about the last paragraph. Having said that, does the papacy lose some of it's magic if he's speaking English?

The official language of the Vatican is Italian. The growth of catholicism outside Europe is not down to YouTube mass but down to missionaries and ordaining local priests in whatever the local language. I believe Jesus would have been stressing the idea of teaching people in order so they took can teach and growth would happen like that, as it always has done. I don't think the idea was for one man to preach to the entire world, although that is now virtually possible.

I would say they have to be very careful changing and modernising because the magic might be lost if he is too available. I am honestly shocked they chose an American in the first place and it could be quite damaging to the catholic church in Europe and the west in general.

[hullexile]

Maybe you are right about the last paragraph. Having said that, does the papacy lose some of it's magic if he's speaking English?

The official language of the Vatican is Italian. The growth of catholicism outside Europe is not down to YouTube mass but down to missionaries and ordaining local priests in whatever the local language. I believe Jesus would have been stressing the idea of teaching people in order so they took can teach and growth would happen like that, as it always has done. I don't think the idea was for one man to preach to the entire world, although that is now virtually possible.

I would say they have to be very careful changing and modernising because the magic might be lost if he is too available. I am honestly shocked they chose an American in the first place and it could be quite damaging to the catholic church in Europe and the west in general.

At our local church they have 3 masses, Tagalog, Kapampangan, English. Speak to the people in the language they understand.

[GentleGeorge]

Owner of Leo's childhood home pulls it off the market after he is named pope, realizing he can cash in...

I applaud the American entrepreneurial vim, but they are hardly unique in this one.

Every second street in Shanghai or Beijing seems to have the "historical residence" of someone or other these days.

[PLamHK]

At our local church they have 3 masses, Tagalog, Kapampangan, English. Speak to the people in the language they understand.

I'm curious about that - how many people are there attending mass who speak neither Kapampangan nor Tagalog?

[hullexile]

I'm curious about that - how many people are there attending mass who speak neither Kapampangan nor Tagalog?

Very few but they may prefer to hear in English. Snob value . The English one is not every day.