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Man dies after being shot by policeman

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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    I'm saying that it is naive to suggest that a routine nuisance call would have the police wait for back up. Most HK police walk in pairs but there are times you see them alone.

    Yes, if more police were there en masse the outcome might have been different, but it is crazy to suggest that a routine nuisance call would be waiting for back up.

    In a busy city with lots of calls coming in, they probably already have to "stack" and prioritize the calls now. If everything from a noise complaint to a barking dog means waiting for back up, nothing will ever get done. I am sure they try and ensure they go with back up but there are cases where it is not always possible.

    My brother was in the RCMP and was on highway patrol outside of Banff Alberta and stopped a drunk driver - a huge guy. By your standard as it was at night, he'd have waited for back up. Meanwhile this weaving car might have killed someone or many people. He stopped the guy and after determining he was drunk told him to turn and while he was searching him this huge guy elbowed him into the ribs cracking a couple of them and winding him.

    They fought on the side of the road for the next 20 minutes with no passing motorists stopping. He got in a radio call from his portable and his supervisor coming from miles away took 20 minutes to get there. Most cops would have just shot this guy and given how beat up my brother and this guy was after 20 minutes he'd have been justified to shoot him. Oh, the Corporal got beat up too before they got this guy cuffed for impaired driving.
    again your situation is completely different...the guy in banff was a serious threat to public safety (apples and oranges)

    this guy had been there for awhile, he lived there...there had been 5previous complaints about him...this would seem to be enough info to suggest he might want to stay where he was and defend his turf (not that that's the right thing to do)...the cop (with 11 years exp.) might have considered this and approached with support (I'm NOT saying stand away at a distance, knees knocking while the backup arrives, but dont wait till you're getting hit with a chair before you make the call!)

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo:
    As soon as the chair was raised by the man thats when it became life threatening hence why the officer drew his firearm.

    It seems you're the one in the wrong spatial dimension here not Gilles.
    nice edit...you too missed the point that the original call was not a life-threatening situation, but given the history, could have been responded to by more than one cop

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by timklip:
    the comment was:
    "I fail to see how else the situation could have been handled differently"

    I gave an alternative response that would very likely have ended differently...

    are you saying that by waiting for back-up and coming in with 4 or 5 officers with batons drawn, the guy would still be dead? I doubt it...
    I understand what you are saying but it's just not a likely scenario. How would the police officer have known he was dealing with a nutcase and should wait for back up? Most people when approached by a police officer and asked for ID simply comply.

    So now you are saying that all police officers should travel in groups of 5? Just can't happen.

    As others have pointed out, HK is a pretty safe place and I've never heard of any other cases like this. It's just an unfortunate event where the police officer did the only thing he could do. Hindsight is 20/20.

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigga:
    When the man said he had no ID and tried to leave, the cop should not have tried to restrain him alone.
    But then he wouldn't have been doing his job would he? You are supposed to produce ID when asked by a police officer. Are you now suggesting we can say no and expect them to walk away?

    What if that guy then went on to harm someone?

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by timklip:
    either you are too thick to comprehend the story as written (in either source) or your, once again, being intentionally moronic...

    I'm talking about the situation that the cop responded to...a call that the man was undressing/pissing in public and shouting...now granted, I've never been pissed on, maybe you have, but I wouldn't call that life threatening...and it was in an area of Kowloon City where few people ever go, so little threat to passers-by...everything that happened after the cop arrived IS A DIFFERENT situation..of course as soon as his gun was drawn (possibly as soon as the chair was raised) it became life-threatening but that's not the situation that prompted to call to police is it?...try to stay in the same spatial dimension with the rest of us gilles

    we could also speculate since thats all anyone is doing, that the guy is well under 6 feet (average height for asian males here), and being homeless, probably not bulked up on a diet of steak and pork chops...swinging a chair at a trained police officer, who, despite this no doubt savage and merciless beating, is able to draw his weapon (would he not be shielding himself from the vicious blows?)...probably not swinging it as hard as a he-man like you could...I think the cop made too many bad decisions for this to be the fault of the dead man
    So your brilliant answer is for the police to look the other way in case the situation develops badly.

    It's the job of a police to maintain order, when he intervened, he was doing his job. 99.9% of the time, his approach would have been correct and the guy would stop...end of story.

    Your fabulous idea is that police should stop intervening in case things turn badly and call back up before asking a vagrant to stop urinating in public.

    Very easy to make judgment with hindsight... I'd love to see this call for back up: Yes dispatch, dispatch, going up the hill to ask a vagrant to stop pissing and requesting back up...

  6. #106

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    So far we Have a lot of: IF, COULD, HOW, MAYBE, MIGHT, LIKELY....that is a lot for one sad story.


  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfire:
    Your attempt at a tu quoque doesn't make any sense. I have not accused the HK police force of anything. Even if I did, my "homeland" is of no relevance. I have mixed ancestry and consider the entire planet my home just as much as anyone elses.
    The Hong Kong police force, polices Hong Kong, not the rest of the world..

    What does the rest of your post have to do with the rest of the world ?

    Please explain ?

  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by timklip:
    this guy had been there for awhile, he lived there...there had been 5previous complaints about him...this would seem to be enough info to suggest he might want to stay where he was and defend his turf .
    Defend what turf lol ?

    The Asian vagrant of non Chinese ethnicity, which I think is what has pissed off some geo members, but I have NO sympathy for illegal immigrants that shouldn't be here, have no rights to be living here, who are already on the wrong side of the law, yet there are a few of you that seem to be oblivious of the laws that we all must abide by....

    Some of you come from countries that are legal basket cases, where people sleep with a gun under their pillows at night, because the criminals have the upper hand... In HK the Police have the upper hand, and still some of you want to over react ?

    I will ask the question again:,

    How many people are shot by Police in Hong Kong each year, and out of that tiny few, how many are killed on average....?

    If it was a common occurrence, I would say o.k, we have a problem, and it would be something to be fearful of when venturing out in public, but nothing is further from that truth, Hong kong public safety is outstanding....

    WHy is it so safe here then ? Magic perhaps
    Last edited by Skyhook; 18-03-2009 at 05:34 PM.

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    If it was a common occurrence, I would say o.k, we have a problem, and it would be something to be fearful of when venturing out in public, but nothing is further from that truth, Hong kong public safety is outstanding....

    WHy is it so safe here then ? Magic perhaps
    Is Hong Kong safe because it has such a highly trained police force?

    In an early post in this thread, it was commented that Hong Kong police are among the best in the world - am wondering if there is any evidence to validate this. Are there rankings or awards (I am serious here) as I have wondered what makes a "good" force and what makes an "average" force.

    I don't think anyone questions how safe Hong Kong is, but is it as a direct result of the police force? I have no real opinion of the police force here, except for the fact they love putting up barriers. Oh and their action on the Edison Chen photos. "That's some fine police work there Lou."

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    WHy is it so safe here then ? Magic perhaps
    I don't think magic. Nor do I think that it is entirely to do with the police force. I think it has more to do with reasons such as Hong Kong already being generally law abiding, so that in itself fosters more people to not break the law, in the same way as in a society where there is a high crime rate people are more likely to take the view that as everyone else is doing it so why not me as well. Other factors keeping the city safe would probably include good street lighting and streets being crowded from early until late. The lack of a drinking culture for most of the population also helps.

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