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Man dies after being shot by policeman

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  1. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo:
    Chief Wiggum springs to mind but then Chief Wiggum is entertaining so perhaps not
    The Chief's son, Ralph, seems more appropriate a comparision:

    Ralph: That's my swingset, and that's my sandbox. I'm not allowed to go in the deep end. And this is where I met the leprechaun.

    Ah, the Simpsons. Is there anything that show can't answer?

  2. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo:
    Chief Wiggum springs to mind but then Chief Wiggum is entertaining so perhaps not
    Well if Safran were a cop, he'd be the kind that you just know will get himself in big trouble eventually.

    There are differing standards for shooting and dealing with crime. In 1975 I attended a FBI course on dealing with barricaded felons. These guys were funny.

    One day they were giving this course in a motel meeting room in the southern US to some city police and rural sheriffs when they were told that a heavily armed group of 6 bank robbers with automatic weapons and machine guns were holed up in an old bungalow across the street.

    With the chance of showing first hand what they were teaching to those southern police and sheriffs, they moved down the street.

    Everything was in place -mobile command center, SWAT team, a team of negotiators one of them on the phone to the gang, police squads and cars cordoning off the area, house surrounded, ambulances and fire services in place - classic text book. After several hours, it was clear this was going to be a long, long situation so they returned to their class room to de-brief what they just saw.

    The big city police guys all praised the good police work. One old sheriff and his deputy in the back were just sitting their shaking their heads and had nothing good to say. In frustration, the FBI instructor said: "Okay then tell us how your 12 person force would handle these 6 heavily armed bank robbers in that same house."

    Sheriff: "It's real simple. I'd get the place surrounded and ol Billy Bob here would take a can of gas and set that old wood house on fire and we'd pick 'em off when they ran out the back door. It'd be over in minutes!"

    Now those days are long gone and now we have folks with cameras capturing real time events so that kind of stuff doesn't happen. However, every policeman or woman knows that there a lot of Safrans who will always criticize even if it is not justified by the facts in this tragic case. No one wins and not the shooter either.
    Last edited by Football16; 20-03-2009 at 04:00 PM.

  3. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDLM:
    Because whilst policemen are not above the law, they are empowered by law to act in different ways to other citizens. The essence of a police force in a democratic society is that the mass of the population vest certain rights, authorities and responsibilities in the police force and give up certain rights themselves. This is felt to be in the greater good of the people as a whole.

    If you don't like such a system and would prefer everyone to have the same rights then feel free to move to a place where such a system does not apply, such as Somalia.
    Funny how there are always some not-very-intelligent-people who conclude with "if you don't like it this way go to North Korea". That is sooooo intelligent!!! Lucky you mention Somalia, so you are a fine bloke, and I would give you a green blob (if I could still distribute blobs), since people here seem so concerned about blobs.

    Don't tell me you don't understand that in places like Somalia precisely everybody doesn't have the same rights? This is the whole problem with Somalia. Policemen, militias, soldiers, etc. don't have to follow any law, and can do everything they want, specially if it involves killing members of ethnic minorities, and poor people.

    I agree that the police is "empowered by law to act in different ways to other citizens", but don't tell me that the police is allowed to kill people, any more than I am allowed to kill people. Can you show me the law that says this?

    Quote Originally Posted by PDLM:
    If you are a police officer going about your lawful duty and you believe that your life is in danger, then yes. Otherwise, no.
    Is there something that makes the life of policemen more worthy than the life of other people. What if the policeman in off duty? Can he still kill people?

  4. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by Safran:
    Is there something that makes the life of policemen more worthy than the life of other people. What if the policeman in off duty? Can he still kill people?
    Safran, would you have been happier if the Senior Police Constable didnt have a gun, and allowed the offender to mash is head in with the bar stool, or have him ( the offender ) run away in a state of rage, possibly hurting another member of the public...?

    There is nothing to debate regarding this... HK has one of the lowest instance of Police related gun death/shooting, in the modern world...

    It was a freak occurrence, and there is no point crying over spilt milk.. If the offender had cooperated with the policeman, obeying the law in the first place, by not attacking a member of the Police force, he would never have been shot in the first place...

    Is it that hard a concept to understand/accept ?
    Last edited by Skyhook; 20-03-2009 at 04:40 PM.

  5. #155

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    Will someone please shoot Safran in the head? It would be a totally justified shooting. He hurt me with his words....


  6. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    Is it that hard a concept to understand/accept ?
    The question is whether excess force was used, and whether it was necessary to shoot him in the head. Perhaps a shot in the air might have been sufficient? Or if the policeman had known how to use his pepper spray and baton perhaps he could have used these? Or maybe he could have used his kung fu skills? Or maybe he could have retreated and called for backup (but then he would have lost face, wouldn't he?). Or do you think that everybody who threatens someone with a chair should be shot in the head?

    These are the issues. Are they that hard to understand/accept?

    Quote Originally Posted by aussiegal:
    Will someone please shoot Safran in the head? It would be a totally justified shooting. He hurt me with his words....
    Again, an incredibly intelligent post...

  7. #157

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    Do you really think it is a policeman's job to retreat?

    If you are so incensed by the policeman's actions why don't you go and form some sort of victim support group for the dead guy instead of bashing people on here for supporting a police man for doing his job.

    I don't understand why you continue to argue about an incident where only two people will ever really know what went down and what was in the policeman's head. Do you really think the policeman aimed for his head? I don't for a minute. He was on the ground when he fired. Have you ever fired a gun yourself? Do you think it's as easy as point and shoot and you hit wherever you want?

    I don't know why i bother. can we all agree to just block Safran. we might have some more interesting discussions.


  8. #158

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    A shot in the air Safan. Now that probably would be against their policy here in crowed HK or even against the law - firing a gun without regard for the safety of others or something like that. Warning shots- too funny. Also, this is HK and where do you think the bullet is going to go when he is firing this shot and the guy is swinging his chair?

    Get a grip. You'd be screaming all over this too if a stray bullet hit an innocent person.

    I think you've taken one too many chair shots to the head.

    Last edited by Football16; 20-03-2009 at 05:21 PM.

  9. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiegal:
    Do you really think it is a policeman's job to retreat?
    Oh, so the guy died so the policeman wouldn't lose face?
    Quote Originally Posted by aussiegal:
    I don't know why i bother. can we all agree to just block Safran. we might have some more interesting discussions.
    Since I disagree with you I should be blocked? Well, perhaps since you disagree with me, why not block yourself?

    Please stop bothering and simply leave this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    I think you've taken one too many chair shots to the head.

  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigga:
    Well, obviously. Everyone and his dog knows that. But if all other police officers have to answer calls in pairs, why do motorcycle cops attend non-emergency calls alone (and so enthusiastically)? It's not like waiting would have done any harm, perhaps a few more drops of urine on the ground... I'm surprised they don't have guidelines covering such things. If they did, this wouldn't have happened.

    And, separately, I still suspect that the cop performed really badly. It was the worst possible outcome, after all.
    You're smart. In one sentence you ask why motorcycle cops attend incidents alone and later you wonder why the officer performed "really badly". Lesson one: 1+1=2.

    I'll repeat myself in the same way that you do. The fault is not with the officer, it is with the resourcing procedures.

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