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Man dies after being shot by policeman

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  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfire:
    His lawful duties, yes. I take no issue with the majority of officers who perform their duties admirably and lawfully. I will gladly cooperate with any police officers who perform their duties in such a manner. They and I are on the same side as citizens with equal rights.

    Some, a vast minority, overstep their authority and use excessive force. Force that can easily cause grievous bodily harm and lifelong injury that keep you from living your life fully. If such force was to be applied upon me unjustifiably then I would resist and take my chances rather than accept whatever was coming.
    If we were to believe your accounts, HK police are massacring people here on a daily basis..

    How many people get shot by Hong Kong Police on average every year ? Now compare that statistic to your homeland, lol Better patch up all the broken windows in your glass house, because as far as anybody with a firm grasp of local reality is concerned, HK does not have a problem with its police force....

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    If we were to believe your accounts, HK police are massacring people here on a daily basis..

    How many people get shot by Hong Kong Police on average every year ? Now compare that statistic to your homeland, lol Better patch up all the broken windows in your glass house, because as far as anybody with a firm grasp of local reality is concerned, HK does not have a problem with its police force....
    I was referring to police in general, not just the HK police force. My knowledge of local police cases is very limited, but so far, I have indeed not heard of any misuse of force by the HK police.

    Your attempt at a tu quoque doesn't make any sense. I have not accused the HK police force of anything. Even if I did, my "homeland" is of no relevance. I have mixed ancestry and consider the entire planet my home just as much as anyone elses.

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiegal:
    Gilles, i've only ever agreed with you on one or two things but this is one of them.

    I fail to see how else the situation could have been handled differently. Firing a gun is not an easy thing let alone hitting a target. Even if it were possible to train police to 'shoot to harm' rather than kill who says 1) that shooting someone in the arm would keep them down and that 2) each and every police officer is capable of being that accurate? It's just nonsense.

    Nobody here is happy with the outcome but if you choose to take on an armed police officer and fail to get the message when they have used pepper spray and a baton what do you expect? It's not like the police carry a never ending supply of weapons to try when the one before fails. Numchuckers anyone?

    Those people outraged by this incident, Lotalife, Shri et al please tell me how the situation should have been handled. I will happily take my comments back if one person can come up with a reasonable way of handling such incidents.
    simple...wait for backup. come in with a show of force...don't speed over on your scooter and play solo commando...again..THIS WAS NOT A LIFE THREATENING SITUATION! It was a nuisance complaint, but one with previous evidence suggesting someone unstable...

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by timklip:
    simple...wait for backup. come in with a show of force...don't speed over on your scooter and play solo commando...again..THIS WAS NOT A LIFE THREATENING SITUATION! It was a nuisance complaint, but one with previous evidence suggesting someone unstable...
    That is laughable. That is where you don't understand how police dispatch works. Nuisance call... wait for back up! Any call can end up bad, it is just how it works. That is why they call policing a boring job punctuated by moments of terror.

    Routine traffic stops for tickets, jay walking - all have a potential of violence and end up sadly and badly.

    I knew a motorcycle cop who was flagged down by a bank employee and told to stop that person. He thought it might have been a bad cheque - he didn't think it was an armed robbery as it all happened so fast. He ran up to the guy who was casually walking down the street and the guy turned and shot him in the face. He didn't know she had been robbed.

    I knew another beat cop who was looking in a store window at just after 10 am in the morning when a bank robber with a .45 ran into him as he looked back to see if he was being chased. Lucky for the cop, in the struggle for the gun, the bank robber took the bullet.

    If the call was a man with a gun, they'd likely wait for back up. Also, it depends if the police are right there on scene. Do you want the police to run away in fear???
    Last edited by Football16; 18-03-2009 at 03:37 PM.

  5. #85

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    the comment was:
    "I fail to see how else the situation could have been handled differently"

    I gave an alternative response that would very likely have ended differently...

    are you saying that by waiting for back-up and coming in with 4 or 5 officers with batons drawn, the guy would still be dead? I doubt it...


  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:

    If the call was a man with a gun, they'd likely wait for back up. Also, it depends if the police are right there on scene. Do you want the police to run away in fear???
    The Post reported that the cop RAN up the hill to the homeless guy and started asking for ID. He then got out of his depth, failed to stop the guy with both baton and pepper spray, then wound up on the ground and had no recourse but to shoot.

    But why did he get into such a position in the first place? Perhaps he would be better off behind a desk...

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    Routine traffic stops for tickets, jay walking - all have a potential of violence and end up sadly and badly.
    Very true including here. It wasn't too long ago a police officer stopped a man for a routine ID check in Cheung Sha Wan. The person he stopped pulled a knife and stabbed the officer in the neck which ultimately caused brain damage and paralysis. His life pretty much gone for a simple ID card.

    And as for yesterday I doubt the officer going to investigate someone taking a piss in public actually believed he would be in danger of actually suffering anything more than a wet boot. He can't be held responsible for the guy losing it. But these things happen and unless you've been in that situation (if you actually know what the exact situation is) then making comment of he could do this or that is the stuff of fantasy. Reality is very different.

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by timklip:
    simple...wait for backup. come in with a show of force...don't speed over on your scooter and play solo commando...again..THIS WAS NOT A LIFE THREATENING SITUATION! It was a nuisance complaint, but one with previous evidence suggesting someone unstable...
    How exactly do you know it wasn't a life threatening situation? Were you there? Were you the one being attacked with a bar stool after having tried pepper spray and your baton? Do you think for example that a 6'3" 225lbs drunk guy swinging a bar stool could not kill a 145lbs 5'7 cop?(I don't know the sizes but they are certainly within reasonable limits) Do you think the cop should have run away and possibly let other people get injured?

    It may be that he was too quick to draw his gun but the judge of that is certainly not for anyone sitting on a chair with limited information.

    I find it pretty hard to muster great feelings of sympathy for the attacker in light of the information released though I do feel for his family and I think that being in the shoes of the police officer, it's not inconceivable I would have acted the same way.

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by timklip:
    the comment was:
    "I fail to see how else the situation could have been handled differently"

    I gave an alternative response that would very likely have ended differently...

    are you saying that by waiting for back-up and coming in with 4 or 5 officers with batons drawn, the guy would still be dead? I doubt it...
    I'm saying that it is naive to suggest that a routine nuisance call would have the police wait for back up. Most HK police walk in pairs but there are times you see them alone.

    Yes, if more police were there en masse the outcome might have been different, but it is crazy to suggest that a routine nuisance call would be waiting for back up.

    In a busy city with lots of calls coming in, they probably already have to "stack" and prioritize the calls now. If everything from a noise complaint to a barking dog means waiting for back up, nothing will ever get done. I am sure they try and ensure they go with back up but there are cases where it is not always possible.

    My brother was in the RCMP and was on highway patrol outside of Banff Alberta and stopped a drunk driver - a huge guy. By your standard as it was at night, he'd have waited for back up. Meanwhile this weaving car might have killed someone or many people. He stopped the guy and after determining he was drunk told him to turn and while he was searching him this huge guy elbowed him into the ribs cracking a couple of them and winding him.

    They fought on the side of the road for the next 20 minutes with no passing motorists stopping. He got in a radio call from his portable and his supervisor coming from miles away took 20 minutes to get there. Most cops would have just shot this guy and given how beat up my brother and this guy was after 20 minutes he'd have been justified to shoot him. Oh, the Corporal got beat up too before they got this guy cuffed for impaired driving.
    Last edited by Football16; 18-03-2009 at 04:07 PM.

  10. #90

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    >> alternatives....

    Perhaps a good time for the force to look at tasers?


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