Like Tree26Likes

Recent Islamic News

Closed Thread
Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
  1. #11

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ex Sai Kunger Sunny Qld for now
    Posts
    8,318

    Ahhh, lets look at tolerance for a moment.

    Hong Kong would be one of the best examples of tolerance, but always remember, that tolerance is based on the average behaviour of any group.

    Lets not smoke a pipe dream, if Muslims in HK decided to do a Sweden here, the troops the police and society at large ( 95% Chinese homogeneous ie monoculture ) would crack down in very demonstrated ways.

    You are only as tolerated as your respect for the hand that feeds you. Bite that hand that feeds you and the Chinese collectively pull their heads in, like turtles and stop doing business with them, wont rent apartments to them, wont rent shops and make life pretty impractical.

    Maybe thats what happened in Sweden, the local Swedes shouted ENOUGH and now wont hire them as employees. Why would you hire somebody that when they get offended, they feel they can jump up and head but you, because you had an opinion about their god, as an infidel...

    Remember, we are all infidels, in the eyes of a devout Muslim, we are not worth any consideration.

    We have been tolerant, please state where westerners have not accommodated Muslims with multicultural, pluralist nations, that award the same freedom/opportunity for ALL races/religions?

    Please provide me evidence where we, the WEST, have actively been intolerant - or initiated violence toward Muslims of the community? ( todays world )

    It has always been in response, where any group/faction, have infringed on the host nations laws, and where they have been intolerant to the nation, that gave them the gift, of citizenship. Nobody is above national laws, if you disagree, then it is you that is the problem, not the religion per se.

    Last edited by Skyhook; 24-05-2010 at 10:12 AM.

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    4,043

    Yes... there is massive intolerance on the part of many Muslims. It would diminish if the economies to which they moved were doing better. That and more tolerance on our part - less US style fear - be more like the Chinese in accepting others.

    Skyhook .. you are lumping every worshipper of Islam into ONE group who all think that we are infidels? Amazing. That is how we get more "them" and "us" thinking.

    I think what you are missing in the Sweden case and in that of all of Europe and the UK with these huge ethnic masses of the unemployed is that it is not that the Swedes etc won't hire them - it is that there are few jobs. It is a massive problem that threatens social stability in Europe and is ruining cities like Malmo.

    Maybe the Swedish immigration authorities got it wrong and let too many into an economy that can't support the numbers or the skills they bring.

    Of course immigrants don't get hired if they don't know the local language. It is why many return home due to even subtle discrimination like the wrong accent. It is true in Canada that many hiring managers will avoid accented Chinese university grads unless it is IT. Shocking but true.

    Look at the USA in the 1960s when unemployment in the ghettos of Detroit, LA, Oakland led to cities burning. The fall in race riots has corresponded with a rise in employment opportunities for blacks and the breaking down many of the barriers between white and blacks.

    The government in the PRC are hectored and lectured by the USA about lack of freedom in China. The reality is that with 1 billion people in a recently developing economy, you have major pockets that are not doing well and thus the PRC government's number one priority is social stability. It is seen as key foundation on which to pursue their economic growth strategies. They do get somethings right.

    Xinjiang has been a region plagued with unrest and rioting. The PRC government has just announced a huge stimulus package to achieve both social stability and economic growth.

    Xinjiang support package hailed by local residents

    URUMQI, May 21 (Xinhua) -- China's support package for the far-west Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region unveiled Thursday has become a hot topic for residents of the region who hailed the strategic plans that help bring prosperity to their hometown.

    Stability in HK is an interesting reality today and maybe you are right as to how others are controlled here. There was a period of time when this was not true for HK and that was not too long ago. Look at Thailand and how those idiots have taken their country to the brink of anarchy. It is a fine line all over.

    In the 1970s if a HKer in Vancouver was a victim of crime the last person they wanted to speak was a cop! They were all too familiar with crooked cops including the multi-millionaire former Staff Sergeant in HK Police Lui Lok who was just buried in Vancouver! That too has changed as a result of ICAC.

    Last edited by Football16; 24-05-2010 at 10:31 AM.

  3. #13

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Pampanga, Philippines
    Posts
    29,765
    Quote Originally Posted by jpinst:
    one more thing football 16....I am a devout Roman Catholic, born and raised to be that way. i went to religious school as well. If I see a depiction of Christ with a dogs head, i think nothing at all, and i certainly don't want to kill the cartoonist. Islam is the new Communism and Muslims are having their own cultural revolution, which will yield what? Argue until you are blue in the teeth. Nobody but you and your fellow Muslims give a shit. Really. Every country has is problems, but we deal with them in civilized ways.....is that something Muslims can do? Really?
    Hardly think the Roman Catholic church can hold the high moral ground on dealing with things in a civilised way. A history of mass murder, mass torture, oppression and forced conversion, not to mention raping kids. Oh not all catholics are like that? (P.S. I am not a Muslim but a Christian).
    Football16 likes this.

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ex Sai Kunger Sunny Qld for now
    Posts
    8,318

    Malmo has a problem with unemployment in general, what about the 75% of the rest of the non Muslim population that lives there ?

    The difference in how each community copes / reacts to lifes challenges, proves my point.

    I don't see the Swedes inflicting violence on anybody, regardless of the trials of life, which we all face. Maybe the Muslims that are provided welfare and a place to live by the Swedish govt, can be a little more appreciative, that they are being provided assistance, a lot more there in Sweden, than they would have enjoyed back home in their home land, where they would have had to solely rely on family, if unemployed.

    Football ? Why you are defending any bannered group that incites violence toward the greater community, is beyond immagination, if one moves to any nation, we should always make an effort to observe the cultural rules, immerse ourselves into the mainstream culture, and learn the language...

    Do you think we are awarded any special treatment when living in Muslim countries ? We by law must obey their Islamic laws, why cant they obey ours in non islamic nations ?

    Is that the tolerance that you speak of ? or do you ignore this double standard, that we award freedom of expression / speech/ lifestyle, but they don't reciprocate the same tolerance in return ?

    Fascinating if you side behind those that do enforce their religious laws, at the expense of the rest of the community's, feelings/freedom/sensibilities...

    Last edited by Skyhook; 24-05-2010 at 10:43 AM.

  5. #15

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Pampanga, Philippines
    Posts
    29,765
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    Malmo has a problem with unemployment in general, what about the 75% of the rest of the non Muslim population that lives there ?

    The difference in how each community copes / reacts to lifes challenges, proves my point.

    I don't see the Swedes inflicting violence on anybody, regardless of the trials of life, which we all face. Maybe the Muslims that are provided welfare and a place to live by the Swedish govt, can be a little more appreciative, that they are being proved assistance, a lot more there in Sweden, than they would have back home in their home land, where they would have to rely souly on family if unemployed.

    Football ? Why you are defending any bannered group that incites violence toward the greater community, is beyond immagination, if one moves to any nation, we should always make an effort to observe the cultural rules, immerse ourselves into the mainstream culture, and learn the language...

    Do you think we are awarded any special treatment when living in Muslim countries ? We by law must obey their Islamic laws, why cant they obey ours in non islamic nations ?

    Is that the tolerance that you speak of ? or do you ignore this double standard, that we award freedom of expression / speech/ lifestyle, but they don't reciprocate the same tolerance in return ?

    Fascinating if you side behind those that do enforce their religious laws, at the expense of our feelings/freedom/sensibilities...



    You don't speak Cantonese, do you Footy ? So, you dont have much of an actively immersed expat, nor do you lead by assimilation example. You have not assimilated either, or you would live in a more local a that lives on HK Island in your expat ghetto
    I won't speak for Football, but I will answer your points. Just because someone suggests tolerance for a group does not mean they defend all of their actions. What I personally object to is this labelling of Muslims as being a homogenous group. As I think Footy pointed out this is not the first ethnic group to riot in their adopted country. Remember the Brixton riots in the UK?

  6. #16

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ex Sai Kunger Sunny Qld for now
    Posts
    8,318

    Pretty obvious that football has never lived in an Islamic nation.

    How would you cope if you did Football, still think you could type what you do now ? Imagine being jailed for bouncing a cheque ? Plus so many freedom infringing rules that if broken, that may seem harmless to us, but are punished hardcore, there. Like the bouncing cheque law, which is enforced in Dubai, the Middle Easts most moderate Muslim location.

    I can promise you, if you were to live in the Middle East, you would do what their laws tell you, without any tolerated deviation. Is this the pseudo mutual tolerance that you speak of?

    Maybe Football and Hull can try living in Saudi Arabia for a couple of years, and then, based on that experience, you can tell us all how tolerant it is there...... that's if the govt monitored ISP's, allow what you say, onto the internet .

    You won't appreciate the freedom that you have now, until you have lived in a nation that does actively oppress its people, be it under a religious, dictatorial or monarchical banner.

    Last edited by Skyhook; 24-05-2010 at 11:21 AM.

  7. #17

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Pampanga, Philippines
    Posts
    29,765
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    Pretty obvious that football has never lived in an Islamic nation.

    How would you cope if you did Football, still think you could type what you do now ? Imagine being jailed for bouncing a cheque ? Plus so many freedom infringing rules that if broken, that may seem harmless to us, but are punished hardcore, there. Like the bouncing cheque law, which is enforced in Dubai, the Middle Easts most moderate Muslim location.

    I can promise you, if you were to live in the Middle East, you would do what their laws tell you, without any tolerated deviation. Is this the pseudo mutual tolerance that you speak of?

    Maybe Football and Hull can try living in Saudi Arabia for a couple of years, and then, based on that experience, you can tell us all how tolerant it is there...... that's if the govt monitored ISP's, allow what you say, onto the internet .

    You won't appreciate the freedom that you have now, until you have lived in a nation that does actively oppress its people, be it under a religious, dictatorial or monarchical banner.
    Have either me or footy said that Islam is great? That we support Islamic states? I really don't understand the point you are trying to make. Is it that because Islamic states lack tolerance (agreed in general) then we should show Muslims in other countries the same lack of tolerance? Perhaps as "civilised" people we should set the example.
    Football16 likes this.

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ex Sai Kunger Sunny Qld for now
    Posts
    8,318
    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    then we should show Muslims in other countries the same lack of tolerance? Perhaps as "civilised" people we should set the example.
    Don't we do that already ?

    Isn't that the whole point of what multicultural western nations are about ? Equality, freedom for all, be it in the USA, Australia, New Zealand, Canada etc etc, fair laws that accommodate the whole community. Please state an example in this day and age, where they actively oppress, or victimise any section of the community ?

    If I remember rightly, the first declaration of human rights, was pioneered and signed by western nations, yeah? Mid last century, signed in France, a signal that we have actively advanced and self improved, for the betterment of the overall community.

    What are you trying to say, that its us that is at fault, because we expect society to behave in a civilised manner, within the sphere of universal tolerance, for all citizens ?

    That was my point, it certainly is the case where I am from, judged by the staunch anti discrimination laws that exist in the work place there, and the amount of tolerance awarded to Muslims at public schools, even at the expense of our own cultural traditions, which are no longer promoted, so it doesn't offend other groups. Christmas for example, or only serving halal sausages at a school fund raising sausage sizzle... I feel that we have gone out of our way to try and accept this culture, more than any other group in my opinion.
    Last edited by Skyhook; 24-05-2010 at 11:56 AM.

  9. #19

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Pampanga, Philippines
    Posts
    29,765
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    What are you trying to say, that its us that is at fault, because we expect society to behave in a civilised manner, within the sphere of universal tolerance, for all citizens ?
    Don't think I ever said anything like that. All I am saying is not to tar all Muslims with the same brush and that rioting ethnic minorities is not isolated to Muslims. In London we have had ethnic minorities rioting dating back to 1719 (bloody French protestant Huguenots, we let them come in to avoid repression, they built their own churches and the like, took over the area, then rioted because they didn't like the clothes we were wearing! Never trust a French protestant I say, ungrateful bastards.)

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Discovery Bay
    Posts
    5,018

    Skyhook, I don't think it is fair to the progressive societies in the west to be compared with regimes such as those in Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E.

    I also do not think that it is fair to be tarring all Muslims with the same brush, especially if you are basing your views on the extremist members of their society that is largely responsible for creating unrest every place they go, simply because they are the visible members of Muslim communities overseas.


Closed Thread
Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast