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Soldier beheaded in Woolwich, UK. Sickening.

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  1. #351

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    Quote Originally Posted by INXS:
    I can't answer this for Grunty....luckily the Quran helps to clear things up:

    "On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone kills a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if they killed all people. And if any one saved a life, it would be as if they saved the life of all people." (Holy Quran, Chapter 5, Verse 32)

    So there you are. The Holy Quran has given us the specific set of circumstances in which a person can be killed.....'spreading mischief'. Are we clear now?
    You really should take Joe's advice. Have you no ability for self-reflection? Here's a verse of the Koran I also managed to google right back at you:

    "Whoever kills a believer intentionally, their reward will be Hell, to abide therein forever, and the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon them, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for them." (Holy Quran, Chapter 4, Verse 93)
    I don't know whether it is because of your shameless 360s and constant changing of goalposts but I can't take you seriously - especially when all you do is scratch the surface about what this is all really about. The only way I can rationalise it is that you're a racist (by any decent person's definition, not your convenient definition).

  2. #352

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruntfuttock:
    ...but Islam is basically 1000 years behind the rest.
    ... and Islam is still largely in the Dark Ages and threatening pretty much everyone else.
    My question still stands. Why? Also I don't think it is simple as Islam still being behind the times. You can look to Iran in the fifties, sixties and seventies as an example of that. I also think that this is much a problem of modern day Islam - say, in the last 10-20 years. I think it has regressed. So. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gruntfuttock:
    You could start here: http://pointdebasculecanada.ca/artic...challenge.html The text quoted is, as I understand it, from the primary authority on Sharia Law.
    You assertion was that "sharia law if fully implemented, explicitly requires honour killings". I''m not sure your link demonstrates this - only that some readers of The National Post managed to obtain references in relgious texts to allude to this. Your article doesn't explain the context behind those quotes but in any event, that type of argument is as good as Bryant's "pull a quote out of the hat generator". I think it is a poor argument for any of us non-religious to pull out religious quotes in isolation and pretend that we understand them in the modern context.

    In every example I have seen of a report of an honour killing, where the perpetrator has been caught, he has been served some form of justice. I haven't yet come across a situation where a perpetrator has been freed explicitly because the there is an honour killing exemption.

    However, the interesting commentary I have come across is that the punishment for honour killing is often makedly less than for killings for reasons other than to restore a perpetrator's pathetic "honour".

    I read a very interesting article about the relationship between the two in (I think) Lebanon in the nineties which suggested that such a position gives an undercurrent of validity to it. I can't currently find it though but I'll keep looking.

    There is definitely a cause for concern but when people like you push the extreme view (and, apparently, uninformed view), it pushes people away from taking you seriously.

  3. #353

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    The only way I can rationalise it is that you're a racist (by any decent person's definition, not your convenient definition).
    That's simply because your thinking is not mature enough to recognise that the goal posts on the definition of race have been shifted purely to inhibit criticism of religion. You're actually part of the problem!

    Now you may call this conceited and arrogant....I don't feel that way, I think I'm right, you think you're right, it's a conversation on a website.

    JJ also thinks I'm arrogant because I don't agree with his view....this kind of odd double standard is the norm.

    Calling me a racist only highlights your intellectual immaturity.

  4. #354

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    There is definitely a cause for concern but when people like you share a perfectly valid view, it pushes ignorant people away who can't stand the idea that their world view may be wrong, wrong, wrong.
    Fixed it for you.

  5. #355

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    Quote Originally Posted by historian:
    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/37...islamic-future

    The short version is that within the next 20 years Islam will replace Christianity as the dominate religion in the UK.

    Mainly because fewer people are christian, rather than a massive influx of muslims though.

  6. #356

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    Quote Originally Posted by arrowsmith:
    It's certainly interesting. maybe it has something to do with the fact that a lot of the major scientific breakthroughs have happened in Christian countries. gelileo, newton, Darwin, Einstein. Christianity has been gradually eroded over hundreds of years. and alongside that you have the growth of democracy, secularism etc. the cultural landscape within which Christianity has operated has typically been different from islam.
    that's true, though again, islam hasn't been isolated from the rest of the world, so even though they weren't making the discoveriesthey would have learnt of them. It's not like imams are insisting the sun goes round the earth.

    It's just strange to me that christianity had been allowed to erode, to a greater or lesser extent, all around the world, whereas in most middle eastern arabic countries, islam is very protected. Could it be that the missionaries, in their attempts to spread christianity, ended up softening it to make it more palatable?

  7. #357

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    Original Post Deleted
    Must admit....I wasn't quite sure why he 'facepalmed' and then quoted that passage...guess it's hard to find any nice ones...

  8. #358

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    It's pointless quoting bits from any religious text, it's always contradictory.

    “Nor take life – which Allah has made sacred – except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law)” (al-Isra’ 17:33)

    Is the same as many us states rules on self defence , death penalty etc.


    Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.” (al-Baqarah 2:190-194)

    Change 'allah' for 'freedom and democracy' and it sounds like american foreign policy.

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using GeoClicks Mobile


  9. #359

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    Quote Originally Posted by usehername:
    Mainly because fewer people are christian, rather than a massive influx of muslims though.
    It doesn't matter. The effect will be the same. Wherever Islam flourishes freedom is restricted, women's rights are tossed aside and minorities are marginalised......look at Turkey..

    It makes my ears bleed that people can't see this...

    The greatest trick Islam pulled was to create an environment where it cannot be criticised freely, allowing it to creep virtually unchecked across western Europe.

    Not Arabs, Islam! No problem with Arabs, no problem with North Africans, no problem with Malaysians.......hate Islam!

    For those whose comeback would be that Christians used to be as bad....who cares, we have one life to live and we live it in forward gear......

  10. #360

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    Quote Originally Posted by usehername:
    It's pointless quoting bits from any religious text, it's always contradictory.

    “Nor take life – which Allah has made sacred – except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law)” (al-Isra’ 17:33)

    Is the same as many us states rules on self defence , death penalty etc.


    Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.” (al-Baqarah 2:190-194)

    Change 'allah' for 'freedom and democracy' and it sounds like american foreign policy.
    Yes! Yes!.......well, except for the kill them where you catch them bit.....oh, and the bit about fighting in Mosques....oh and the bit about killing people who reject faith...and that gibberish about the prohibited month.....apart from nearly all of.....maybe...

    Okay, this passage and America's foreign policy both have words in them???

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