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Moving in on salary 43K HKD per month with family of 3 .. is it worth ?

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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmbf:
    Completely agree with you about financial prudence and saving.

    Completely agree with you about managing your credit card spending.

    Completely disagree with your blanket statement "No person with a shred of financial common sense would use a credit card to pay for a trip home without the ability to pay it off in full" which assumes nothing unexpected ever happens AND / OR emergencies don't happen to people. It also assumes ALL people can build up a reasonable sum of reserve cash which is also not true especially for low earners and those early on in their careers.

    Take your own example, if an emergency had happened to you early on before you had 2 years to build up your own stash then this situation could have happened to you.
    When I first moved abroad (and was young and didn't have a huge reserve in place) I purchased emergency repatriation insurance for expats which was intended to cover exactly this kind of emergency. Since becoming more financially stable, I stopped buying it (as self-insurance is almost always cheaper than insurance products, if you have the cash-flow to manage it). So there are ways to manage these risks without going into debt. I agree with Kim - credit card debt is for fools and having seen a member of my family run up debts of 5x ANNUAL salary I personally would take it pretty seriously.

    Not entirely sure what it has to do with the OP's topic though! 43k for a family is tight, but then so is what the vast majority of the world live on. It all depends what alternatives back home they have as to whether or not it;s a good idea or not.

  2. #22

    Have you ever been to modern America?

    Quote Originally Posted by HK_Katherine:
    I agree with Kim - credit card debt is for fools and having seen a member of my family run up debts of 5x ANNUAL salary I personally would take it pretty seriously.
    So then we're all fools in America. I only know one person in America -- who was not born there -- who isn't carrying some credit card debt (maybe not 5 times salary as that is an extreme example). And all of these people are making decent middle class wages and/or family heads or homeowners who have been faced with unexpected problems.

    This idea that the poor are simply bad planners or not hard workers is a pernicious one and it's the sort of talk the right wing used to throw around at the working class in the USA for ages.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericaninKT:
    So then we're all fools in America. I only know one person in America -- who was not born there -- who isn't carrying some credit card debt
    Wow, seriously? Credit card debt interest is horrendous though. Why not take out a low interest loan if you're really that desperate?

    Sent from my SGP511 using GeoClicks mobile app

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericaninKT:
    This idea that the poor are simply bad planners or not hard workers is a pernicious...
    Cant say much for the poor : planning nor working wise, that sounds like a distraction and an attempt by you to take the argument to a dry-grass-filled area...

    What can be said is that those who carry credit card debt are (in general) bad planners, over spenders and have very little clue how to stick to a budget.

    This has been studied many times over and it doesnt have much todo with luck nor health. I'll leave it to your capable fingers to find many articles and studies showing the reasons people get into debt.
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  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericaninKT:
    So then we're all fools in America. I only know one person in America -- who was not born there -- who isn't carrying some credit card debt (maybe not 5 times salary as that is an extreme example). And all of these people are making decent middle class wages and/or family heads or homeowners who have been faced with unexpected problems.

    This idea that the poor are simply bad planners or not hard workers is a pernicious one and it's the sort of talk the right wing used to throw around at the working class in the USA for ages.
    You are the one implying that all poor people have credit card debt, I never mentioned people on lower incomes, only people with credit card debt. The two are not mutually inclusive. I know people on big salaries with huge debt, spend all their time worrying about money borrowing on one card to pay the other off, I know working class people in north of England never had a card in their life, but they own their own home and have no financial worries.
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  6. #26

    Yes but

    Quote Originally Posted by kimwy66:
    You are the one implying that all poor people have credit card debt, I never mentioned people on lower incomes, only people with credit card debt. The two are not mutually inclusive. I know people on big salaries with huge debt, spend all their time worrying about money borrowing on one card to pay the other off, I know working class people in north of England never had a card in their life, but they own their own home and have no financial worries.
    I wasn't implying that either and I know they're not mutually inclusive. But you wrote these words:
    "Live within your means, credit card debt is a fool's false paradise."
    Now if you are a single mother in America struggling to hold onto a job that probably doesn't pay what you are worth because the healthcare is decent and you've got kids and there is some home/health emergency -- or car repairs! -- that requires you to charge a big purchase do you honestly think paying that off is the priority of the working mom the next month? A working mom has to put food on the table, pay for the car to get to the job and get the kids to school, pay for childcare -- no live-in "slaves" like here in HK! -- and all that other stuff.

    (And my scenario involves what we'd call middle class in the US, not poor.)

    Your advice is great and I sincerely believe that it worked for you but wake up to the reality of the atrocious economy in America between the coasts.

    I am really and truly offended that you can just glibly dispense cavalier advice as if your situation is universal or as if the answer is so simple that those who don't follow it or see its relevance are just idiots.
    Last edited by AmericaninKT; 22-07-2014 at 03:02 PM.

  7. #27

    I don't like you

    Quote Originally Posted by HowardCoombs:
    ...
    I really just don't like you.
    Last edited by AmericaninKT; 22-07-2014 at 03:03 PM.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericaninKT:
    I really just don't like you.
    Now that you've insulted me, are you going to ask for advice and expect a meaningful response?

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericaninKT:

    I am really and truly offended that you can just glibly dispense cavalier advice as if your situation is universal or as if the answer is so simple that those who don't follow it or see its relevance are just idiots.
    It's not glib or cavalier. It's actually very simple, very obvious and very true. It's just that those people you mention in your post refuse to accept that. They still smoke, drink, use the car rather than walk or use the bus and spend money on many other things that are NOT ACTUALLY ESSENTIAL ... and then when an essential expense comes in (like, as you say, a medical emergency) then say they have no money. Budgeting is budgeting. You don't have to have much to budget with, but you do need to make tough choices. Using a credit card is not a tough choice, its a STUPID choice. And tends to make matters worse.

    Sure, I agree, plenty of people do this. Doesn't make it sensible. Doesn't make someone saying it's wrong wrong either. Just unpopular.
    HowardCoombs and kimwy66 like this.

  10. #30

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    Moving in on salary 43K HKD per month with family of 3 .. is it worth ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericaninKT:
    I wasn't implying that either and I know they're not mutually inclusive. But you wrote these words:
    "Live within your means, credit card debt is a fool's false paradise."
    Now if you are a single mother in America struggling to hold onto a job that probably doesn't pay what you are worth because the healthcare is decent and you've got kids and there is some home/health emergency -- or car repairs! -- that requires you to charge a big purchase do you honestly think paying that off is the priority of the working mom the next month? A working mom has to put food on the table, pay for the car to get to the job and get the kids to school, pay for childcare -- no live-in "slaves" like here in HK! -- and all that other stuff.
    I have been a single mother, of four children, the youngest of whom was 3 weeks old when my first husband left to go to another country because of some bullshit midlife crisis. I was left with a broken washing machine, a bit of furniture and clothes. I hand washed clothes until we had enough for repairs to the machine. The last thing I would do in that situation was take on debt. We simply did without, and there was a whole lot doing without in the first year. I know what it is to be poor, so please do not try and tell me how hard people have it in the US.

    Even now, when I can well afford to I don't have a helper, and we pay a very small rent in comparison to income. Because we choose to live like that to have money to use elsewhere that makes our lives secure.

    The simple point is that you advised credit card debt to people coming here on tight incomes. This is not advice, it is a recipe for financial stress.
    HK_Katherine and Fiona in HKG like this.