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Setting up a coffee shop in HK.

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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiaque:
    Hmm, maybe you could start an online store to sell frozen bakery good that people can bake at home. We used to buy things like this at Waitrose in the UK. There are a handful of things we like to buy lik ethis but don't want to pay for the prices from abroad. Even HK made frozen pizzas for a fraction of the price of the ones they have would be great.
    Frozen bakery and bread - Terroirs e-shop

    AuFour-AuMoulin | French tradition baked fresh

    There's one I think based in DB as well, sorry can't remember the name.
    Elegiaque likes this.

  2. #62
    monochrome
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiaque:
    Obviously .... Pastoral parks. Yes, that's what a Frenchman should bring to us.
    I rarely leave Kowloon and when I do I am never impressed, so all the places you mentioned must be in other districts.

  3. #63
    monochrome
    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo:
    To the guy that mentioned a coffee shop in Chungking.

    No freaking way, You won't make much profit and the clientele will not be the high spenders to make it worth while.
    And don't even think about offering free wifi as you'll get travellers ordering the cheapest thing on the menu and use your wifi and charge there phones etc.
    the point I was trying to make is that there are spaces available that might not be store fronts on well travelled streets but still have traffic.

    Like a section of the floor of an existing store. you can find cafes get wedged into all sorts of places. the OP can query stores about renting part of their space.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by monochrome:
    Actually there are good bakery products in HK at least to my plebeian tastes.

    Every day Macanese restaurants sell Macau (Portuguese) style egg tarts on street stands. The pastry and feeling are both good. Dont worry about making REAL anything. Make what you can in this environment that tastes good. There is a dessert place just a couple blocks off Nathan on the other side from Hang chow that makes pastry crusts but all the confections are made with fruit products, so they only LOOK like European pastry. it is jam packed every day and quite good.

    Another point about the cafes that many posters here are naming for you. most of them are overdone,they are too capital intensive, requiring renovation and furniture than is far too elaborate and costly.

    Most of these cafes either cater to, or attract clientele from the office worker crowd hypnotized by their smart phones while they just grab a quick bite.

    the cafe has another function: not mainly as a place to eat but a place to hang out and read think meet talk.

    So I don't think you should use delifrance as your model, since it is really not a "cafe" It is franchise Micky D imitation of a cafe.
    In a nutshell, I like my cafes a bit on the grungy/rustic side. I do like the inner city, bearded, hair bunned, hipster crowd in Melbourne and Wellington, I feel they are largely responsible for both cities achieving world class ( as good as Milan/Rome ) coffee culture, while taking what was a very consistent coffee industry, to a more in depth ( fun ) level, ie introducing single origin coffees and expanding the range of coffee varieties made available. Hong Kong needs this urban culture to help improve its F & B industry, instead of just being about making $$$$. It should be about doing something better, something great amongst your peers, ie be a practical representation/demonstration of what you are about. To Continental Europeans, the Cafe is the parliament of the people .


    Another idea to alleviate the free loader element ie kids doing home work etc, if @Gelewagen still feels that he wants to pull the trigger and set up a cafe in Hong Kong, my advice to do the following things.

    Focus on having narrow bar width standing and bar stool, perimeter counter benches, or high rise full length communal tables that will discourage people taking a smaller table all to themselves. Have a large percentage of standing room ( St Ali does this ) and the final piece that will totally get rid of the freeloaders, get a liquor license, which will attract more customers at night, if you can configure the right space to accommodate both styles of customer. Keep the place bright and airy, avoid going down the dark timber dingy English pub route, that really is 4 decades out of date, keep the place funky, vibrant/ interesting and fun.

    A good name for this coffee shop would be, hey, why not state the obvious, The Standing Room Cafe & Bar. he he
    Last edited by Skyhook; 30-10-2015 at 11:12 AM.
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  5. #65
    monochrome

    [QUOTE=Skyhook;3310933] To Continental Europeans, the Cafe is the parliament of the people ;).


    Another idea to alleviate the free loader element ie kids doing home work etc, ..../QUOTE]

    Your meanspirited attitude is mirrored by other posters, and contradicts the notion of a parliament of the people.

    [QUOTE=Skyhook;3310933]Focus on having narrow bar width standing and bar stool, perimeter counter benches, or high rise full length communal tables that will discourage people taking a smaller table all to themselves. Have a large percentage of standing room ( St Ali does this ) and the final piece that will totally get rid of the freeloaders, get a liquor license, which will attract more customers at night, if you can configure the right space to accommodate both styles of customer. Keep the place bright and airy, avoid going down the dark timber dingy English pub route, that really is 4 decades out of date, keep the place funky, vibrant/ interesting and fun. /QUOTE]

    This arrangement will stamp such a "cafe" as not a cafe at all, since a cafe is precisely the place where one can sit and do nothing. To get a little piece of this is exactly why Western oriented HongKongers swarm sbux and knockoffs.

    Having standing room and high tables will drive away people who want to do exactly what a cafe is made for, which is to sit comfortably and relax. Making people feel uncomfortable is not a cafe business model but a fast food model.

    the perimeter bar-seats are not social since people are looking out, good sometimes for people watching, not good for talking tete-a-tete which is a function of the cafe and what separates it from other business models.

    You can find such perimeter seating at the Starbucks branch just behind Miramar Mansions, on, I think, Carnarvon st. It's always monopolized by the staff.

    getting a liquor license will attract the drunks which is exactly what a cafe is not for, but again your reason for this suggestion is to "drive out freeloaders."

    This is rather typical thinking by an overpaid undereducated segment of the expat community in HK, less so but still evident in Thailand, constantly looking for people beneath their imaginary social station to degrade.

    Actually those cafe that let people of small budgets hang out attract the feral young art school girls who can barely afford their Doc Martens. I definitely would rather be sitting near them, rather than some would-be arriviste iphone zombie dashing in and out.

    You are advising the OP to set up a trendy tourist trap which views customers as ATM machines, not at all fun.

    Last edited by monochrome; 03-11-2015 at 05:10 AM.
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  6. #66
    monochrome
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:

    Hong Kong kinda sucks, ....
    Hong Kong may suck in many ways but it is like NYC.

    Once you get there and you feel the energy you fall in love with it.
    shri and Cho-man like this.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by monochrome:
    Hong Kong may suck in many ways but it is like NYC.

    Once you get there and you feel the energy you fall in love with it.
    I think Skyhook has been here quite a while and it seems he is now falling out of love with the place
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  8. #68

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    [QUOTE=monochrome;3314061]

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:

    You are advising the OP to set up a trendy tourist trap which views customers as ATM machines, not at all fun.
    Um actually I wasn't, but thanks for taking what I typed out of context.

    Considering my family are heavilly involved in the hospitality industry in Melbourne and to a lesser extent in Europe, I am speaking from experience. I grew up in the industry, thanks to my mothers side of the family. My fathers side were more involved in mechanical, civil and architectural industries..

    I firmly had Melbournes Botanical restaurant and bar, in mind when I typed my licensed venue comment, an example of what I am typically used to/familiar with and prefer. A specialist licensed cafe that adopted a similar format would be very welcome and likely attract a lot more female patrons, which I think is a good thing.

    Not a tourist trap or anything like that, just a more pleasant environment that non beer drinkers can enjoy a good coffee or wine and a light meal etc with some decent indoor and outdoor space to enjoy it in. That's what I meant.

    Restaurant & Bar in South Yarra, Melbourne - The Botanical.
    Last edited by Skyhook; 03-11-2015 at 10:17 AM.

  9. #69

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    Another more casually priced licensed Cafe that's along the same idea as the botanical, would be Airstream Cafe. I regularly visited this place when it first opened back in the mid 90's which is still going strong 2 decades later on its original shop fit, still looks as good today as it did back then. Didn't date.

    A great place again to order Italian based coffees and a light snack, inside or outside on the terrace.
    http://www.airstreamcafe.com.au/

    Never saw any drunken violence at these places btw. and it was always a generally youthful crowd that made these places the success that they are.

    This is what we need more of in Hong Kong, in my opinion.

    Last edited by Skyhook; 03-11-2015 at 11:49 AM.

  10. #70

    Just walk past this post, couldn't resist injecting a bit of my view on setting up coffee shop.

    To join in a French coffee shop franchise and to bring to Hong Kong will mean you pay dearly for the license free to begin with, likely have to buy in the regional rights to begin with, and pay extra license fee for the first shop. To get a sensible return on investment, one will likely need to find a shop in a more busy district areas in Hong Kong, likely Central, Waichai or TST. Therefore, premium rental fee (killer number 1), AND will need to hire reasonably good English speaking staff (killer number 2). Typical market rental period has turn from 5 years down to 3 years now, a much more ideal term for landlord.

    So assuming one does a wonderful job of operating a coffee shop, real profit will start come in maybe later part of year 2 or early year 3. The landlord will be waiting with a new contract term that will just let you survive, not enough to call a profit, yet maybe a bit more then one will get as salary if taking on a real job. This is the reality of F&B in Hong Kong.

    jimbo likes this.

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