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Man dies after being shot by policeman

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  1. #131

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    That doesn't explain where all the squeegee-men went. They were all a hell of a lot older than 20.


    ...though I guess they probably all went to Jersey.


  2. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigga:
    The Post reported that the cop RAN up the hill to the homeless guy and started asking for ID. He then got out of his depth, failed to stop the guy with both baton and pepper spray, then wound up on the ground and had no recourse but to shoot.

    But why did he get into such a position in the first place? Perhaps he would be better off behind a desk...
    You need to understand how a Police Force operates. The Officers are despatched to incidents through a control room, the Officers don't choose where or what they want to do. They are either available to be despatched or busy at another incident or busy with a prisoner.

    So the Officer is told where to go, he'll be told that there is a disturbance. That's it. Now he arrives and he has to deal with it.

    If anyone is at fault it will be the Control Room - exactly the same as what happened when the Brazilian student was killed in London.

  3. #133

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    Safran- you should give up on red dotting me. You don't have enough rep to affect mine in anyway so they turn up as grey, though I do find your plaintive whining amusing.


  4. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by buchowski:
    If anyone is at fault it will be the Control Room - exactly the same as what happened when the Brazilian student was killed in London.
    Of course, the guy attacking the cop couldn't possibly have been at fault.


  5. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaykay:
    My point is that people react in different ways to different situations - you proved yourself not so level headed in the situation I mentioned.
    So, can you answer my question? If someone attacks me with a chair, do you think I have the right to shoot him in the head? If you think your answer is yes, you need help.

    And if your answer is no (I don't have right to shoot him in the head), do you think that a policeman has this right? If you think that he has this right but a private citizen (me) does not, than you need help too.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaykay:
    What do you believe the line is in a policeman pulling and using his gun - what merits this action? Bear in mind this action can be lethal.
    ONLY a very clear danger to his life. Drawing a chair and threatening someone with it isn't a clear danger to anybody's life. I have been threatened with chairs, sticks, bottles, knives, etc. (all of which can be used to kill), but I have never ever thought about blowing these people's heads off. The officer could just have retreated and called for backup instead of murdering the guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaykay:
    And spare me any crap about shooting in legs, etc, unless you have ever had a gun in your hands and a moving target you will never know just how difficult it can be to get a precise shot.
    Bullshit. The head is smaller than the legs or the abdomen. The policeman obviously was aiming at the head of the guy, not at the abdomen, which is the most obvious (because big) target. I would be less angry with the policeman if he had shot the guy in the belly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krad:
    Police are trained to shoot for center of mass as it gives them the best chance of hitting their target.
    Yes, the abdomen, not the head!
    Quote Originally Posted by Krad:
    There's none of this shooting legs or head crap. You discharge a gun because you have no other recourse, and if you're forced to fire, you're sure as hell going to shoot until they're down.
    This is what military men do. The police isn't supposed to be trigger-happy and kill, but in making people incapacitated to move, so they can be arrested and prosecuted. One shot in an arm would have been sufficient. Or a shot in the air surely! Judge, jury and executioner? I don't think so! They are supposed to protect public peace, not to kill those who momentarily disrupt it!

    Quote Originally Posted by jgl:
    Jay, Jakay, Krad: You're forgetting the old adage- never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, and then beat you with experience.

    MovingIn was entirely correct. If you've paid attention to the general quality of Safran's posts before, you'll realise that either he's either a few cha siu short of a bao, or he's a remarkably skilled troller desperately seeking attention.
    So everybody who disagrees with you is an idiot and a troll, right?

    I am just saying what I think, but of course, since I think something differently from you, I am an idiot, right? You must have many friends!

    And it isn't me who red/gray dotted you. I guess I am not the only one who thinks that your kindergarten logic is.. well,
    Last edited by Safran; 20-03-2009 at 12:01 PM.

  6. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by Safran:
    So, can you answer my question? If someone attacks me with a chair, do you think I have the right to shoot him in the head? If you think your answer is yes, you need help.

    And if your answer is no (I don't have right to shoot him in the head), do you think that a policeman has this right? If you think that he has this right but a private citizen (me) does not, than you need help too.
    So if someone attacks you with any weapon you will stand there and take it? The job of the police is to uphold law and protect people. What if he retreated - and that man then went on to attack an innocent person or child? But of course YOU would defend his right to do that, I would imagine even if a child was killed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Safran:
    ONLY a very clear danger to his life. Drawing a chair and threatening someone with it isn't a clear danger to anybody's life. I have been threatened with chairs, sticks, bottles, knives, etc. (all of which can be used to kill), but I have never ever thought about blowing these people's heads off. The officer could just have retreated and called for backup instead of murdering the guy.
    OK, which is it? Drawing a chair and threatening someone with it isn't a clear danger to life (sentence 1) and then (sentence 2) I have been threatened, blah, blah, chair, blah, blah which can all be used to kill. Contradictions in 2 sentences. I am impressed. A+


    Quote Originally Posted by Safran:
    Bullshit. The head is smaller than the legs or the abdomen. The policeman obviously was aiming at the head of the guy, not at the abdomen, which is the most obvious (because big) target. I would be less angry with the policeman if he had shot the guy in the belly.
    Try it when your moving and the subject is moving and come back when you have the real answer. This was not 24 or CSI Miami. As mentioned police are trained to aim for the body - THAT DOES NOT MEAN THEY CAN HIT IT WHEN ALL OTHER FACTORS ARE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Safran:
    And it isn't me who red/gray dotted you. I guess I am not the only one who thinks that your kindergarten logic is.. well,
    Who else on this thread has only red dots and is only able to give out grey!

    Why can't we have a slapatwat day in HK?
    Last edited by jaykay; 20-03-2009 at 12:20 PM.

  7. #137

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    There is a difference between "clear danger to one's life" and "can be used to kill". A pen can be used to kill, while holding a pen is clearly not a danger to anybody's life. Is this so difficult to grasp?

    I ask you again, and I would appreciate an answer:
    If someone threatens me with a chair, do you think I have the right to shoot him in the head?


  8. #138

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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Safran:
    There is a difference between "clear danger to one's life" and "can be used to kill". A pen can be used to kill, while holding a pen is clearly not a danger to anybody's life. Is this so difficult to grasp?

    I ask you again, and I would appreciate an answer:
    If someone threatens me with a chair, do you think I have the right to shoot him in the head?
    He was attacked with the chair, not merely threatened, and he told the guy to stop several times. The guy continued going at him with the chair, and his less-lethal force options were exhausted (apparently he wasn't much good at scrapping hand-to-hand or didn't wanna risk getting injured). It's hard to say what any of us would do in that situation. If you've ever been in a fight or watched a real one, you know it's often impossible to say which direction it's going to go in.

    Yes, the cops are trained to shoot only to stop a threat to their lives or someone else's, but when that adrenaline/epinephrine hits your system, you do what you can. The cops shot someone in the leg last year and it was considered a clean shoot. This guy might have stopped his attack if he took a hot .38 slug in the leg, but who knows. I don't think the cop was aiming for the guy's head since he missed with his first shot. The second one hit the guy's head, but it might just have been luck.

    He might not have been using his sights at all. I've had that experience when wargaming in an apartment building when I was 12 or 13. Someone snuck up on me and I dumped my entire pistol magazine his way. Only two of twelve BBs hit him, and both hit his legs.
    Last edited by jayinhongkong; 20-03-2009 at 12:53 PM.

  9. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by Safran:
    There is a difference between "clear danger to one's life" and "can be used to kill". A pen can be used to kill, while holding a pen is clearly not a danger to anybody's life. Is this so difficult to grasp?

    I ask you again, and I would appreciate an answer:
    If someone threatens me with a chair, do you think I have the right to shoot him in the head?
    If you're a police officer and you've tried to stop the guy from attacking you with pepper spray AND a baton, and someone is coming at you with a chair or anything else that could injure or kill, hell yeah!

    Go on, give me another one of your gray blobs.

  10. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by Safran:
    I ask you again, and I would appreciate an answer:
    If someone threatens me with a chair, do you think I have the right to shoot him in the head?
    If you are a police officer going about your lawful duty and you believe that your life is in danger, then yes. Otherwise, no.

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