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Why do people need helpers?

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  1. #141

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    The biggest difference is that when there is abuse, there is very little recourse, they will lose their job, have to go back to their country and possibly have debt from this decision. That and the fact that in most cases, they have no freedom of movement apart from their day off and even then there is usually a curfew. It's OK because they are poor and other countries do a lot worse...

    And some dare to compare their situations with them on top of it...Sure expats make a few sacrifices but it's laughable to compare situations. I won't even comment about the idiotic Club Med reference...

    kimwy66 likes this.

  2. #142

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    Can we just move past the hyperbole of "slaves" already. I know people and journalists love to use the word because it is shocking but foreign domestic helpers in HK are absolutely nothing like slaves. Has anyone who uses that word learned about real slavery in school or even just watched some of the countless movies that have come out?

    Slaves were forcibly and brutally captured. Slaves could be Legally maimed, raped, tortured, and killed. All of those were very prevalent except for killing as slaves were valuable property. Slave owners decided on who slaves consorted with (married) and could change that at whim. Babies born to slaves were also the property of the slave owner and could be killed or sold away at whim. I could go on but you get the point.

    If we must try to use a historical context how about saying modern "indentured servants"? Poor Europeans who couldn't afford passage to the new world but wanted to try for a better life left their families, agreed to be bonded to a rich landowner, and work for free for 10 years in exchange for passage. Sure it still isn't a particularly good example but its certainly a lot closer than slavery.

    Oh wait it doesn't sound as sexy and shocking as slavery so lets keep using that word.


  3. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golem:
    The biggest difference is that when there is abuse, there is very little recourse, they will lose their job, have to go back to their country and possibly have debt from this decision. That and the fact that in most cases, they have no freedom of movement apart from their day off and even then there is usually a curfew. It's OK because they are poor and other countries do a lot worse...

    And some dare to compare their situations with them on top of it...Sure expats make a few sacrifices but it's laughable to compare situations. I won't even comment about the idiotic Club Med reference...
    Why is it idiotic?

    If the problem of being a helper is sharer non private accommodations, long hours, and 1 day off a week - that’s not only something helpers experience.

    If the problem of being a helper is that they’re abused - then the HK government needs to change laws to punish bad employers more harshly and allow helpers to change jobs without having to leave immediately. It should also allow families willing to pay a certain amount per month - whatever it calculates as the cost of living - to let their helpers live out.

    HK government is failing families with children and elderly, that’s why people have helpers. Rich people in every country have household help, middle class and working class usually don’t because they have government services or the industry is less regulated eg childminders, in home day care so it can be affordable for normal people.

  4. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmRa6:
    Can we just move past the hyperbole of "slaves" already. I know people and journalists love to use the word because it is shocking but foreign domestic helpers in HK are absolutely nothing like slaves. Has anyone who uses that word learned about real slavery in school or even just watched some of the countless movies that have come out?

    Slaves were forcibly and brutally captured. Slaves could be Legally maimed, raped, tortured, and killed. All of those were very prevalent except for killing as slaves were valuable property. Slave owners decided on who slaves consorted with (married) and could change that at whim. Babies born to slaves were also the property of the slave owner and could be killed or sold away at whim. I could go on but you get the point.

    If we must try to use a historical context how about saying modern "indentured servants"? Poor Europeans who couldn't afford passage to the new world but wanted to try for a better life left their families, agreed to be bonded to a rich landowner, and work for free for 10 years in exchange for passage. Sure it still isn't a particularly good example but its certainly a lot closer than slavery.

    Oh wait it doesn't sound as sexy and shocking as slavery so lets keep using that word.
    It is also insulting to the helpers. Many are not treated well and the laws in HK are usually not in the favour of helpers. However they have freely entered into the arrangement so slaves they are not.
    merchantms and AmRa6 like this.

  5. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    For that though I think more and more will go to Japan where the pay and conditions will be better
    I was talking with an owner of a diaper (nappy) factory some years ago and they told me adult versions outsell baby versions in Japan.
    hullexile likes this.

  6. #146

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    In this digital age it should be simple to prove a helper has living conditions that meet the legal minimum.

    Just needs the executive branch to pass a simple law requiring employers to upload or post photos of the living accomodation and a few random checks for compliance. A government sponsored helpline for abused workers would also be a good start. Government policy encourages or discourages abuses that could happen.

    Caring Carrie Lam will get round to it soon, I am sure

    Kowloon Goon and mlew like this.

  7. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by merchantms:
    Why is it idiotic?

    If the problem of being a helper is sharer non private accommodations, long hours, and 1 day off a week - that’s not only something helpers experience.

    If the problem of being a helper is that they’re abused - then the HK government needs to change laws to punish bad employers more harshly and allow helpers to change jobs without having to leave immediately. It should also allow families willing to pay a certain amount per month - whatever it calculates as the cost of living - to let their helpers live out.

    HK government is failing families with children and elderly, that’s why people have helpers. Rich people in every country have household help, middle class and working class usually don’t because they have government services or the industry is less regulated eg childminders, in home day care so it can be affordable for normal people.
    Because in a large number of cases, it's all of the above conditions. the HK government has absolutely no incentive in providing a fair system. They are the ones who have rigged the system so that it's all in favor of the employers and it takes away the responsibility to provide or oversee a child care system. A DH can work 40 years in HK, she'll be booted out right after her contract end with a boot on her back and no thank you from the government.

    Most people happily close their eyes on the system, fall back on the wonderful treatment of their DH who is "part of the family" but can't go out and night and must be home before 7pm on her day off. Yeah let's condemn the evil Brunei government who might mistreat gays but we wouldn't want to be inconvenienced in our lives so we'll find every excuses for a system designed to exploit the poor but hey it's ok ... they're poor so whatever happens, they "chose" it and it's better than their life of poverty.
    Kowloon Goon likes this.

  8. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golem:
    They are the ones who have rigged the system so that it's all in favor of the employers
    The current administration is surely to blame. Plenty of chances to improve the system but no changes in 20+ years.
    merchantms likes this.

  9. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast:
    The current administration is surely to blame. Plenty of chances to improve the system but no changes in 20+ years.
    The current administration shares the blame with all the ones that preceded. They did not institute the system, like most things in HK, they are resistant to change and in this case, it's at the very bottom of the list as there are absolutely no incentive. This would go against the government interest, the population's interest to favor a group of foreigners that everyone is more than happy to exploit. In fact, they have expanded to other countries perhaps because the ones from the Philippines are proving to be slightly more difficult and less pliable than from other countries. The poorer and the less educated the better... Easier to exploit, less trouble, less complaint. You have probably more chances of seeing an independent HK than a one where DH are treated with equal rights.
    Kowloon Goon and mlew like this.

  10. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by merchantms:
    Why is it idiotic?

    If the problem of being a helper is sharer non private accommodations, long hours, and 1 day off a week - that’s not only something helpers experience.

    If the problem of being a helper is that they’re abused - then the HK government needs to change laws to punish bad employers more harshly and allow helpers to change jobs without having to leave immediately. It should also allow families willing to pay a certain amount per month - whatever it calculates as the cost of living - to let their helpers live out.

    HK government is failing families with children and elderly, that’s why people have helpers. Rich people in every country have household help, middle class and working class usually don’t because they have government services or the industry is less regulated eg childminders, in home day care so it can be affordable for normal people.
    I have heard about poor conditions for DH, but to be honest I have never seen it. Most of what I have seen have a separate maids quarters with 2-3 bedrooms, living room and private bath. Yes they are smaller but plenty of them were nicer than my first flat here in HK. For those with smaller flats, their helper lived out.

    Too much generalizing that treatment to all DH is bad. Geez bringing back some memories of bad employment experiences that I have faced in the past here in HK. Can I cry wolf too?