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To Mask or Not To Mask

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  1. #31

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    Reminds me of that time, 20 years ago, when half the population of HK would line up every morning at McDonald;'s to buy a Snoopy doll. It was a cheap, plastic useless toy. Some of my colleagues did that too and I asked them why. They looked at me like it was the most stupid question ever asked and answered: "EVERYBODY IS DOING IT".

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  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by CWB Bay:
    Masks are basically useless. But no sheeple will ever understand that. 'Look, I have mask. I am safe.'
    This is inaccurate re topic at hand (some other issues may have sheep mentality) and shows selfishness.

    Let's keep it simple:

    - Masks do not prevent the wearer from being infected by others.
    - Masks do help prevent the wearer from infecting others if they are infected - and note many COVID19 cases have been involved being asymptomatic.

    So masks are not useless, and is part of a wider focus on hygiene and prevention of community infection (obviously any hygiene regime involved other measures). It's no surprise that the rate of infection in HK has been flattening out until last week.

    Also keep in mind the unique conditions (particularly population density) and history (particularly SARS) of HK that requires particular vigilence. Being a good citizen of the community doesn't involve saying "piss off you're a sheep" to local customs that are there for good reason.

    Not being vigilant about hygienie in public in HK - supermarkets, public transport etc - is essentially a determination that you are more important than the wider community. It is not at the same level as eg anti vaccine people, but the thinking is along the same line. I would strongly argue regular mask wearing is part of that hygiene regime in HK.

    Hoarding is bad, and I wish the government had a greater focus on providing essential supplies to the public.

    Taking a reasonable level of responsibility towards others is good and what we should all be doing. Definitely not perfect or going overboard with hygiene, but also very happy to admit my thinking on this issue has significantly evolved since late January.

    Final note - the above doesn't mean anyone has to be perfect. Given the small apartment size for many in HK, there is no way everyone can implement social distancing - unlike many other countries, entire social distancing in HK essentially means a jail like condition, and ignores deep underlying customs in HK (eg many parents are reliant on their children and grandchildren for physical and mental support, many people being in apartments that have no or limited cooking facilities, many employment positions not offering WFH or WFH not being possible at all, can't keep your kids at home all day with no schools). Obviously people who are out partying are not in this group, but I understand why there are still regularly people on the streets - which makes it more important to maintain a good hygiene regime if we are regularly stepping out.
    Last edited by ebayhtl; 21-03-2020 at 11:39 PM. Reason: Added last para.

  3. #33

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    Should operate from the stanspoint of least regret. Would you regret not taking precautions such as wearing a mask? Not wearing a condom? Not checking to see if you locked your door? Then do what makes you not regret. Its a low cost tradeoff for something with high tail risk - and with the virus one that can kill you.


  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by CWB Bay:
    I'm a HK non=mask wearing gwailo. Today I bought a bag of made-in-Japan masks that I will wear when I go outside. Not because they will protect me, not because other people will be protected from me, but only because it will keep me from getting dirty looks from local HK sheeple. 'Sheeple' are locals who do things because 'everybody is doing it'. Whether it make sense or not.
    People in Hong Kong wear masks not just to follow the crowd, but because of scientific evidence.On the contrary, I am surprised that so many westerners follow authority blindly. The WHO and government's claim that masks are useless is a lie. That is more political than scientific. Because they know they can't provide enough masks for the public. So they lie directly to cover up their incompetence.

    See what do the HK scientists say

    【Mask? No use?】Dr. K. Kwong's View

    1. We all know that COVID-19 spreads by droplets when the virus carrier coughs or sneezes.

    2. A portion of the droplets fall on surfaces (those with size 100-200 microns), the virus keeps active for a while.

    3. The rest of the virus carrier droplets (those with less than 100 microns) will suspend in air as aerosol for a while.

    4. When you touch the surface, your fingers attach some virus from 2.

    5. When your fingers touch your (a) eyes, (b) nose, (c) mouth, you are infected.

    6. 【SOAP, ALCOHOL WORK】If you do wash your hands thoroughly with soap or clean you hands with a suitable sanitizer (e.g. 60-90% alcohol). The virus on your hand will be destroyed or flushed away. WASHING HANDS SOAP AND WATER ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT ACTION because it successfully stop infection 5(a,b,c). BUT SOAP AND SANITIZER DO NOT STOP AEROSOL (3) infection 5(a).

    7. 【BLEACH SOLUTION】Kills germs and destroyed virus, so it stops 4.

    8. 【MASK as a barrier to spread from virus carrier】It effectively stops the spreading of aerosol droplets from the virus carrier 1, so it stops 2 and 3.

    9. 【MASK as a barrier to prevent you from respiratory infections】A well designed mask with a proper filter filters off the aerosol droplets in 3. It also prevents you fingers to stop touching nose and mouth 5(b,c).

    10. 【Goggles or similar eye protection (eye shielding, glasses)】stop infection via eyes (5a). Contact lenses are NOT recommended.

    11. 【DIY MASK】is essential, a HK MASK with a filter (e.g. kitchen towels) stops virus spreading (8), with a NANOfiber filter stops virus spreading (8, 9).
    Please reserve those N95 or higher grade masks to physicians.

    Do not say MASK is USELESS. Please read and deeply elucidate what the scientist thinks.


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  5. #35

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    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...553?via%3Dihub
    A 2014 study in Japan showed that wearing face masks can reduce one’s chances of getting the flu.



    This chart doesn't include Taiwan (the government ensure sufficient supply of mask to the whole population) that the transmission rate is even lower


    Last edited by Wooden; 22-03-2020 at 12:43 AM.
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  6. #36

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    Original Post Deleted
    He did say keep it simple. He didn't say truthful

  7. #37

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    wear a fucking mask, simple.
    https://wearafuckingmask.com/


  8. #38

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    For an isolationist like myself masks in casual live during a pandemic present more danger than good. Isolationism promotes full border closure, shutdown of all non-essential businesses, restaurants, bars, work from home, suspension of air travel, etc., etc. Maskers believe that a mask would protect them when out and about and therefore wearing a mask encourages exceptions from real and extreme isolation. It will be interesting to see how the case progression is going to develop in HK vs. US in about a month from now. Although, it's an ongoing battle for the next year plus, so there will be many ups and downs for us to observe and analyse.


  9. #39

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    Sep 2015
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    A haven't done a lot of reading on the 1918 pandemic, but masks where surely present back then and widely used, even required. Whether or not the demise of that virus can be attributed to masks to a high degree - I don't know. Here's some interesting "historical" stuff playing to those who say masks are an Asian thing: "The bottom line is that in East Asia, the predilection toward using face-coverings to prevent exposure to bad air is something that predates the germ theory of disease, and extends into the very foundations of East Asian culture"

    https://qz.com/299003/a-quick-histor...sks-in-public/


  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by sv336:
    For an isolationist like myself masks in casual live during a pandemic present more danger than good. Isolationism promotes full border closure, shutdown of all non-essential businesses, restaurants, bars, work from home, suspension of air travel, etc., etc. Maskers believe that a mask would protect them when out and about and therefore wearing a mask encourages exceptions from real and extreme isolation. It will be interesting to see how the case progression is going to develop in HK vs. US in about a month from now. Although, it's an ongoing battle for the next year plus, so there will be many ups and downs for us to observe and analyse.
    Keeping a social distance is certainly important, but that doesn't mean wearing a mask is useless


    Mixing the two is either a lack of logic or a form of sophistry to justify not wearing a mask


    No one has ever said that wearing a mask is ok without keeping a social distance

    The truth is that people go to bars / pub etc are more likely to not wear masks


    Look at Japan, where the outbreak started earlier than the west and the government's epidemic prevention policy is in a mess. Not only are cities not locked down, people are living as usual. But what you don't see is a very large outbreak in Japan, like in Europe, and it seems like it is under control. The Japanese government has done even less than European countries.


    Some wonder because Japan did not test on the same scale as South Korea. But that doesn't make sense because if there's a pandemic, you can't fool people about the death toll. Japan's death toll has not risen much. The big difference between Japan and Europe is that after the outbreak started many people were wearing masks and they continued to go out to dine and have fun

    And of course the Japanese as a whole are much more hygienic than the europeans
    Last edited by Wooden; 22-03-2020 at 03:06 AM.

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