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Pakistan Fake Pilots

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  1. #1

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    Does hint at the cause of that recent crash in Karachi. The preliminary report said it was pilot error. Maybe we need to ask whether those pilots were properly licensed too?


  2. #2

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    Was not aware of this ... and that modern aircraft would allow this to happen without any warnings or manual overrides.

    The pilots proceeded with trying to land -- without lowering the landing gear.
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by shri:
    Was not aware of this ... and that modern aircraft would allow this to happen without any warnings or manual overrides.
    There are ground proximity warnings, so definitely there was warning in the cockpit, but the pilot proceeded anyway. As for "manual overide", the pilot has the final say and ultimate control over landing, not ATC or the plane's systems. If the pilot ignore the warnings, then there is nothing much that can be done.
    Last edited by Coolboy; 26-06-2020 at 09:56 AM.

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    For anyone wanting to hear the final communication between ATC and the ill-fated PIA plane before it crashed, here it is:

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  5. #5

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    I presume our Pakistanese pilots without proper licences would have been pretty focused during their approach !
    There is a line in an NYT article which states that the Captain was an "experienced" pilot. I assume many of the unlicensed pilots are new recruits. (Again... no clue.. just random speculation)

  6. #6

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    Had the PIA pilots been properly licensed, they would have received training in CRM or Crew Resource Management, teaching pilots how to communicate, stay cool and make decisions in a situation where an error can have catastrophic consequences. It would have taught the pilots how to not fall into tunnel vision and not be overwhelmed by multiple indications.

    Contrast the now deceased PIA pilots in that crash with the Southwest pilots who landed a crippled 737, Captain Tammie Jo Shults landed a single engine plane, depressurized, with a window smashed and a passenger sucked half-way out. Yet as you will hear, she kept cool and focused on flying the plane and landing it safely. Listening to her communication with ATC, it sounded just like any other day, not a life-or-death emergency. She took control, stating where she wants to land, what kind of emergency was facing the plane and the kind of assistance needed on the ground. Now despite that calm tone, you can bet Captain Shults was under severe stress in that situation. But she is trained to not lose it, yell or scream in that kind of situation, because people's lives depend on her decisions. Instead focus on flying, navigating and communicating, in that order. That is a key example of CRM training:

    Last edited by Coolboy; 26-06-2020 at 10:36 AM.
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  7. #7

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    Long videos, but very detailed in his explanation of the crash report.


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    And another reminder how crucial CRM is, a case a little...closer home, CX780 fom Surabaya Indonesia to Hong Kong on April 13th 2010. When approaching HK towards the end of the flight, the A330 had BOTH engines stalled. The passenger plane turned into a glider and facing the prospect of ditiching into the South China Sea. But they managed to land the plane and both pilots were recognized for their airmanship. How did they do this? Watch this episde of Mayday covering the flight (click on play button on the main video picture):

    https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1ct411s7fv?p=2

    Last edited by Coolboy; 26-06-2020 at 11:47 AM.
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  9. #9

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    This led me to think - what about North Korea?

    On a side note, Pakistan is officially out of my " bucket list" (nothing against Pakistan , just their potential fake pilots who could be potentially throwing my life unto the depth of Atlantic Ocean while flying PIA).

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah01:
    On a side note, Pakistan is officially out of my " bucket list" (nothing against Pakistan , just their potential fake pilots who could be potentially throwing my life unto the depth of Atlantic Ocean while flying PIA).
    You can fly in and out of Pakistan on several airlines, including Cathay and Singapore.
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