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The PRC government is the best thing that has happened to China in the past 2 centuri

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  1. #171

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    Back to the topic on Chinese aid to africa (start 1:25 mins in)

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBkR8Kunyqo&feature=related]YouTube - Silly Money EP02: The China Syndrome P3 of 5[/ame]

    Last edited by fth; 17-07-2010 at 07:18 PM.
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  2. #172

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    Well, at least we DON'T call our US Army, US Liberation Army.


  3. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    So it's OK for the US to support Saddam Hussein and then change their mind and invade his country and sit on their ass on Darfur and Rwanda but China is wrong when they (peacefully I might add) provide support to African country.

    The idea that the US ever 'supported' Saddam, which is thrown around a lot by people who aren't very well informed, is very silly. The US awknowleged that Saddam and the Bath party were the rulers of Iraq. That doesn't obligate the US to maintain him in power, especially after he starts two wars that kill about 2 million people. You might as well say the US supported Hitler (never mind, I'm sure you will.)

    And as I said, feel free to stop discussing anytime...

    Please remind us what the US deficit currently is? How about the debt? I know those pesky money problems are nonsensical...

    And this is relevant exactly how? The US is still richer, on a per capita basis, than any large country, and even richer than enclaves like HK. When it comes to China, well, don't ask. Would you rather be the country with a per capita PPP GDP of $45,000, or a per capita PPP GDP of $5,000? Be my guest.

    The US HAS to provide he says... Of course no one can look after themselves. I remember the Philippines begging you guys to stay... Oh whoops, Am I bad? They kicked the US out!

    Hardly. In fact we had barely left before they began asking the US to come back. Closing the bases is widely awknowleged in the Philippines to have been a mistake. No matter, we won't stay where we aren't wanted. The other SE Asian countries, including Singapore, all lined up to ask the Navy to report in their countries.

    You seriously think Japan wants US bases on its soil?

    No, no more than I want a Marine base in my backyard. What they want, dipshit, is THE PROTECTION OF THE US, which they have.

    The SK are split on the issue

    YEAH - split 95% for the bases and 5% against - some split.

    and I don't blame them.

    Yes, next time you can explain to us all how it is really the US that causes all the problems on the peninsula, and that Kim Jong Il would become a benevolent, liberal, democratic ruler and no threat to his neighbors if we nasty Americans would just leave the poor ROK alone.

    Taiwan is pretty happy to have the US umbrella. As for the others, well I guess they don't count...

    If you say that Malaysia, Singapore, Australia, Indonesia, Thailand, and New Zealand don't count, well that's up to you pal. Vietnam has recently been seen, hat in hand, asking the US Navy to move back to Camh Ranh Bay.

    At any rate, you currently have a president that has some sense since he is trying to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan and stop wasting billions on something that is counterproductive.

    Vast oversimplication. We are probably going to be in Afghanistan for awhile yet (which Obama has repeatedly called 'the right war to be fighting'). As far as Iraq, well, we've won there so yeah, it will soon be time to go.

    The world is safer now than its ever been? Please find some facts to base this allegation.

    What kind of moronic question is that? Are you serious?

    With all the nukes and terrorists around, I don't feel any safer. But you have already shown that you are pretty ignorant about almost everything having to do with world affairs, so I'm not surprised. Would you say that people take more security precautions now or before? I don't remember taking my shoes and my belt off before in airports. I was actually banned from taking a tennis racquet on a US flight. Yeah you guys are feeling real safe...

    I am sure you are really not that stupid. Is one thing to be cautious (overly) about a 1 million to 1 possibility of dying in a terrorist attack, another to have a real possiblity of dying in a nuclear war. The second possibility is now quite small. Ergo, we are all safer.

    An now the US singlehandedly founded the UN and on top of it, you complain when they don't follow along with YOUR ideas...

    I'm not complaining. It is just that the UN is not an appropraite body for collective security

    Good and evil are typical words for an american, I don't see the world that way...

    I know you don't. If this were 1939, we would be discussing the 'legitimate greivances' of Adolf Hitler, his right to Lebensraum in Poland, the fact that Stalin is making the happy Soviets richer and happier every day, and the need for the world to give Japan a free hand in Asia. Yes, Gilly, people like you are, I am afraid, always going to be with with us.

    Comments above. Since you want to continue down this path...
    Last edited by Freetrader; 17-07-2010 at 08:06 PM.
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  4. #174

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    Oh I'm really sorry to use a source as unreliable as GWU... Deficit and debt don't matter? Gee I'd love to see your finances... Just reread some of your posts and you'll understand why some people.

    Japan tried to get rid of US bases but got strong armed in keeping them. Hatoyama is going along even though it might cost him reelection. That's what you call approval?


    From Angus Reid which I would say is more reliable than you: South Koreans Want U.S. Troops to Leave

    Polling Data

    Do you think U.S. forces currently stationed in South Korea should be withdrawn immediately, withdrawn gradually, left for a considerable period of time, or left permanently?

    Withdrawn immediately
    4%
    Withdrawn gradually
    50%
    Left for a considerable period of time
    30%
    Left permanently
    16%
    The U.S. has pushed Japan to uphold the 2006 agreement to move Futenma within Okinawa, as part of a $10.3 billion plan that would also transfer 8,000 Marines to Guam. Clinton met with Hatoyama and Foreign Minister Katsuya Okada in Tokyo on May 21, saying both countries sought “an operationally viable” solution.

    Washington, D.C., 25 February 2003 - The National Security Archive at George Washington University today published on the Web a series of declassified U.S. documents detailing the U.S. embrace of Saddam Hussein in the early 1980's, including the renewal of diplomatic relations that had been suspended since 1967. The documents show that during this period of renewed U.S. support for Saddam, he had invaded his neighbor (Iran), had long-range nuclear aspirations that would "probably" include "an eventual nuclear weapon capability," harbored known terrorists in Baghdad, abused the human rights of his citizens, and possessed and used chemical weapons on Iranians and his own people. The U.S. response was to renew ties, to provide intelligence and aid to ensure Iraq would not be defeated by Iran, and to send a high-level presidential envoy named Donald Rumsfeld to shake hands with Saddam (20 December 1983).

    I'm not going to bother continuing to expose your foolishness because it's pretty obvious that you are completely clueless about your own country which I guess is what one would expect from an american.


  5. #175

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    Oh I'm really sorry to use a source as unreliable as GWU... Deficit and debt don't matter? Gee I'd love to see your finances...

    I didn't say debt and deficits didn't matter. Would be happy to discuss that with you. What I said was that the US is a fairly rich country. Lots of issues and problems - as all countries currently have

    BTW, my personal finances are just fine - don't have any personal debt. Maybe I would have some if I'd paid my father in law a couple of million for my wife as you recommend!


    Just reread some of your posts and you'll understand why some people.

    Why some people what?

    Japan tried to get rid of US bases but got strong armed in keeping them. Hatoyama is going along even though it might cost him reelection. That's what you call approval?

    Strong armed? He realized they needed the bases as a deterrent. As I said before, nobody wants a Marine base in their backyard, and the Okinawans have taken a lot of crap (not least from Tokyo). The bases are a necessary deterrent.

    From Angus Reid which I would say is more reliable than you: South Koreans Want U.S. Troops to Leave

    Polling Data

    Do you think U.S. forces currently stationed in South Korea should be withdrawn immediately, withdrawn gradually, left for a considerable period of time, or left permanently?

    Withdrawn immediately
    4%
    Withdrawn gradually
    50%
    Left for a considerable period of time
    30%
    Left permanently
    16%
    The U.S. has pushed Japan to uphold the 2006 agreement to move Futenma within Okinawa, as part of a $10.3 billion plan that would also transfer 8,000 Marines to Guam. Clinton met with Hatoyama and Foreign Minister Katsuya Okada in Tokyo on May 21, saying both countries sought “an operationally viable” solution.

    Yes, thank you - my numbers were exactly right - 96% of South Koreans want the bases to stay! Are you so clueless that you don't even know what these numbers mean????? This is regardless of the fact that the Koreans need the US alliance. The average Korean, like the average Japanese is MUCH more concerned about the US abondoning the region than the minor annoyance of the continued presence of the bases.

    Washington, D.C., 25 February 2003 - The National Security Archive at George Washington University today published on the Web a series of declassified U.S. documents detailing the U.S. embrace of Saddam Hussein in the early 1980's, including the renewal of diplomatic relations that had been suspended since 1967. The documents show that during this period of renewed U.S. support for Saddam, he had invaded his neighbor (Iran), had long-range nuclear aspirations that would "probably" include "an eventual nuclear weapon capability," harbored known terrorists in Baghdad, abused the human rights of his citizens, and possessed and used chemical weapons on Iranians and his own people. The U.S. response was to renew ties, to provide intelligence and aid to ensure Iraq would not be defeated by Iran, and to send a high-level presidential envoy named Donald Rumsfeld to shake hands with Saddam (20 December 1983).

    So, the US didn't want Iraq defeated by Iran. How terrible.

    I'm not going to bother continuing to expose your foolishness because it's pretty obvious that you are completely clueless about your own country which I guess is what one would expect from an american.

    Yes, when losing an argument due to one's having no control of any relevant historical, political, or economic facts, please resort to 'American' name callling. It wins the argument every time!

    I don't know what nationality you are and don't care - but you certainly belong to the fraternity of idiots!


    Gilly, your posts continue to get increasingly pathetic - please continue however, as everything you cite simply confirms everything I've said. More polls showing 96% of South Koeans want the Amercians to stay in Korea (even if that mattered) please!

    Alternatively, you might want to try to learn a few things before posing as an amateur expert in international affairs. Please resume your work at Starbucks, or whatever field you actually have competence in.
    Last edited by Freetrader; 18-07-2010 at 12:10 AM.

  6. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renotommy:
    Well, at least we DON'T call our US Army, US Liberation Army.
    Never was an Army better named. The PLA has done lots of 'liberating' during its existence. Its guns have liberated the farmers from their land; and the farmers crops from the collective farms they created at gunpoint; it has enforced economic and social policies that liberate the savings of the people and keep most of the Nation in a second-class citizen status; money thus liberated from the people has been cycled back into the crony capitalist enterprises run by the PLA; and over the years the PLA guns have maintained a corrupt party in power through the direct and indirect liberation of 40-60 million people from the yoke of human life. Yup, lots of 'liberating' in the name of the people, there.

    The PLA are simply the goon squad of the CCP. The only 'People' they represent are themselves.
    Last edited by Freetrader; 18-07-2010 at 01:13 AM.
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  7. #177

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    Gilly sez: Quote "Hatoyama is going along even though it might cost him reelection."

    With your vast knowledge of world affairs, you somehow have failed to notice that Hatoyama resigned as PM of Japan over two months ago, doorknob. He resigned because he made promises that were impossible to keep, because he bungled the negotiations so badly and acted so indecisively, and because the Japanese are increasingly worried about local security.

    Last edited by Freetrader; 18-07-2010 at 01:17 AM.

  8. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freetrader:
    Never was an Army better named. The PLA has done lots of 'liberating' during its existence. It's guns have liberated the farmers from their land; and the farmer's crops from the collective farms they created at gunpoint; it has enforced economic and social policies that liberate the savings of the people and keep most of the Nation in a second-class citizen status; money thus liberated from the people has been cycled back into the crony capitalist enterprises run by the PLA; and over the years the PLA guns have maintained a corrupt party in power through the direct and indirect liberation of 40-60 million people from the yoke of human life. Yup, lots of 'liberating' in the name of the people, there.

    The PLA are simply the goon squad of the CCP. The only 'People' they represent are themselves.
    You have to differentiate between the Armed Police ( a separate entity from the normal police ) and the Army. It is the Armed Police that do this sort of stuff , just because a guy wears Khaki and a tin hat in China don't mean he's Army. Even security guards wear it. The PLA is beloved ( the peoples words whom I have discussed this matter with ) by the people who see then doing not just defense of the motherland and disaster work but they help out with a LOT of local infrastructure stuff day in day out. I count quite a few as personal friends and they have never been shy in discussing sensitive matters to another soldier ( me ) and I am grateful for having the understanding.

    The Armed police are able to be mobilized by any party Cadre and are thus used to " influence " events. The PLA can only be mobilsed by the Central Committee ( not sure the actual name -- there are so many ) in Beijing after a request that MUST come from the Party head at province level. Even the governor can not mobilze unless they go through the party head. The PLA is controlled this way for obvious reasons and would not be available for " local troubles ".

  9. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris:
    You have to differentiate between the Armed Police ( a separate entity from the normal police ) and the Army. It is the Armed Police that do this sort of stuff , just because a guy wears Khaki and a tin hat in China don't mean he's Army. Even security guards wear it. The PLA is beloved ( the peoples words whom I have discussed this matter with ) by the people who see then doing not just defense of the motherland and disaster work but they help out with a LOT of local infrastructure stuff day in day out. I count quite a few as personal friends and they have never been shy in discussing sensitive matters to another soldier ( me ) and I am grateful for having the understanding.

    The Armed police are able to be mobilized by any party Cadre and are thus used to " influence " events. The PLA can only be mobilsed by the Central Committee ( not sure the actual name -- there are so many ) in Beijing after a request that MUST come from the Party head at province level. Even the governor can not mobilze unless they go through the party head. The PLA is controlled this way for obvious reasons and would not be available for " local troubles ".
    You make a good point that most of the internal head bashing is not done by the PLA - I understand that the PLA is beloved and has maintained its reputation despite Tiananmen; to a large extent that is because they have a great propaganda machine since the CCPs power ultimately rests with the PLA. I understand that the relatvely new policy regarding mobiliztion is intended to limit the chances of the PLA actually having to massacre students again.

    I should also point out that I generally respect military types as brave, patriotic, and straightforward guys. The same is true for the PLA. But, I would note the Werhmacht during WWII also had plenty of brave, moral, competent and patriotic men who had good intentions. Unfortunately the PLA is indeed the Party's Army, not the People's (although we can be hopeful that that may change). Ultimately it is the cause in which you serve that determines your worthiness.
    Last edited by Freetrader; 18-07-2010 at 01:37 AM.
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  10. #180

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    Quote Originally Posted by HongKongFoot:
    Not to defend the Commie's wacking people, but as per the billboards these people were wearing written in Chinese says "Murderer". So as per policy, they were executed. Also the pictures used in the videos are old, from the 80's. Executions are not held in public anymore, there hasnt been a public execution in China in many years.

    Murderers, rapist, and child molesters should all be executed in my book.
    You are wrong, because some of those police uniforms were not issued until 2002-3. However, what those people did or are accused of detracts from the point that nobody in China is given a fair trail, free from government or Party interference, and with the right to appeal to an autonomous and Independent judiciary. What's worse is that China executes people for economic crimes. Under such circumstances, the state is committing murder.
    Last edited by jpinst; 18-07-2010 at 02:19 AM.

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